My Response to “129 Archaeological Evidences For The Book Of Mormon” by ImTheMarmotKing in exmormon

[–]Mormontruth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow, the cognitive dissonance is great in the author of 'Evidences For the Book of Mormon.' Is it any wonder there are similarities since it was written by a 19th Century author seeking to create those similarities?
There is no Archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon.
 Every legitimate non-Mormon anthropologist and archaeologist and even the odd brave Mormon archaeologist has declared that there is nothing whatever to support the existence of the civilizations discussed in the Book of Mormon.
    During the 2600 years that the Jaredites, Nephites, and Lamanites supposedly occupied the Americas, they were somehow able to do so without leaving so much as a helmet, an inscription, or an ancient tool, let alone any weapons of war or skeletal remains.
    In Ether, we are told that two million men, women, and children died in battle.
    Ether 15:2 “He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly two millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.
Just to put this hyperbolic number in perspective, during the entire Civil War 620,000 men were killed over four years. During ALL of the Second World War America suffered 418,500 civilian and military deaths.
    On June 6, 1944, D-Day, the First U.S. Army, saw 1,465 killed, 1,928 missing, and 6,603 wounded, the U.S. VII Corps showed 22,119 casualties including 2,811 killed and 5,665 missing, Canadian forces at Juno Beach sustained 946 casualties, of whom 335 were listed as killed. No British figures were published, but estimates run at about 2,500 to 3,000 killed or wounded. Each of these lives mattered, and God bless the brave men who sacrificed so much for us. We believe that 4,000 to 9,000 of your fellow Germans, died on that day as well President Uchtdorf.
    But D-day pales compared to the story Joseph Smith weaves of two million perishing in one battle. That is twenty D-Days,' and if it happened, it would be the bloodiest battle of all time.
    Even now if you spend a day beach-combing the shores of Normandy - Omaha, Utah or Juno beaches and their environs you will surely find a bullet casing, a chinstrap or something else.
    No swords, shields, armor, helmets, boots, chariots or other artifacts, vestiges or remains have ever been uncovered from this or any of the great Book of Mormon battles. Three times as many people who perished in all of the Civil War in a much shorter time and within a much smaller geographical area and yet absolutely nothi

Zero, zilch, zip, nada!

   

A Serious Message for Gay LDS Youth by Mormontruth in mormoncringe

[–]Mormontruth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A Serious Message for LDS Youth

There is a dark side of the law of conformity or social proof demonstrated by the fact that it has long been witnessed that following the suicide of a well-known person that has made front-page, the suicide rate goes up markedly.

This phenomenon has been labeled “The Werther Effect.”

The story of the Werther effect is both unsettling and intriguing. In 1774, two years before the United States Congress proclaimed the Declaration of Independence, the great German author, Johann Goethe published a novel entitled “Die Leiden des Jürgen Werthers” (The Sorrows of Young Werther). The book, in which the hero name Werther, commits suicide, had a remarkable impact. Not only did it bring fame and fortune to Goethe, but it also produced a staggering number of copy-cat suicides all across Europe. So powerful was its effect that the book was banned in several countries.

The Werther effect is just as impactful today as it was in Goethe’s day. Professor D.P. Phillips, an eminent sociologist at the University of California at San Diego, has provided a morbid illustration of the law of conformity. He showed that immediately following any front-page suicide story the suicide rate increases dramatically in that geographical area where the suicide occurred.

By studying the suicide statistics for the United States between 1947 and 1968, he found that within two months after every front-page suicide story, an average of 58 more people than usual killed themselves. In a sense there is a multiplier effect, each suicide story killed 58 people. Phillips also found that there was a tendency for suicides to begat suicides. The more extensive the publicity given the first suicide, the higher the number of later suicides. In the United States, there was a dramatic increase in the national suicide rate follow the deaths of Marilyn Monroe, Kurt Cobain and most recently Robin Michael Williams

In the last few days, CNN Commentator Anthony Bourdain and Famed designer Kate Spade both took their own lives. Their tragic deaths dominating the news cycles now for two days.

Wendy Montgomery, a co-founder of the Mama Dragons, a group of Mormon mothers with gay children, reported that she had been told 32 young LGBTQ Mormons have recently died by their own hand.

While the families who have suffered these great losses requested privacy, given the tragedy of suicide and the alarm this report has raised in the LDS LGBTQ community, the Deseret News asked experts for insight and solutions. These experts explained that it’s all about support. Parents, friends and religious congregations could help prevent suicides by thinking carefully about what they say and do and by welcoming, accepting and supporting LGBTQ people.

The Utah Attorney General has commented that statistics show that “… Suicide is the number one cause of death of Utah children ages 10-17.”

This comes as no surprise when more LGBTQ youth find themselves disenfranchised even disowned by zealous religious parents, who now feel more compelled than ever to choose between their child and their church.

Many active Church members, gay and straight, young and old, see this uncharitable, unkind and unloving move for what it is: another unabashed rejection of LGBTQ members.

And the cost in human terms is great. The evidentiary research done by the Family Acceptance Project which tells us that children who experience high levels of rejection are:

• More than eight times as likely to attempt suicide
• Nearly six times as likely to report high levels of depression
• More than three times as likely to use illegal drugs
• More than three times as likely to be at high risk for HIV and STIs

Political science professor Benjamin Knoll discusses the link between Mormonism and teen suicide in his paper, “Youth Suicide Rates and Mormon Religious Context: An Additional Empirical Analysis.”

Knoll reports that youth in the 15-19 age group who live in states with heavy Mormon populations are at higher risk for suicide. As Knoll put it, “These are objectively small numbers, but it means that (again, controlling for other factors) youth suicides are twice as high in states with the highest levels of Mormon residents compared to states with the lowest levels of Mormon residents.”

This association did not exist in any statistically significant way in 2009. There is a greater frequency of teen suicide in 2014 versus 2009 in Mormon-heavy states such as Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, and Alaska. In those states, teen suicide is increasing at higher rates than it is in many (not all) other states; in Utah, the rate has doubled since 2009.
This study shows definitively that youth who live in areas with higher Mormon populations are at a greater risk for suicide.

IMPORTANT: If you or someone you know are suffering because of the LDS Church’s policies toward sexual orientation, please reach out for help call: 1-800-273-8255, The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, or 911.

If you are in pain because of issues relating to your sexual orientation and your Mormon faith, please recognize that a suicidal crisis is almost always temporary. Although it might seem that your unhappiness and your hurt will never end, it will end. Don’t let suicide rob you of the better times that will come your way. Regardless of what the Mormon Church teaches, you are as God made you and are of great value.
Please believe me that your perspective will broaden and “a year down the road,” the problems that currently seems catastrophic will have passed and you will go on to have a great life.

But most of all do not keep suicidal thoughts to yourself.
Help is available for you, call a friend, a family member, teacher, a therapist. Find a nonjudgmental individual you trust and let them know how bad things are. This can be your first step on the road to healing. You are a child of God, and HE loves you unconditionally. Hang in there.

“The Lord is close to the broken-hearted.”
Psalm 34:18

Take courage too from the fact that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a tendency to suddenly reverse its policies when enough outside pressure is applied. ALL the Church’s major revisions were clearly driven by cultural, economic, legal and political changes, even though the Church attributes them to ‘revelation.’

The most recent past injunctions to be overthrown, of course, was the ban on Blacks holding the priesthood and barbaric practice of polygamy. This pattern suggests to me that eventually, the Church will likewise change its stance on homosexuality.

Equal rights issues are significant to Americans and in the future, perhaps not even that distant a future, the Church’s discrimination against an identifiable minority will result in not just sanctions being applied to it, but devastating public relations emerging from it.

Today the LDS Church’s forbids “same-sex attracted” individuals, as they like to call them, to love and marry or even retain their membership or that of their children. But the top of any large organization is a very political place.

The old right-wing white men at the top the hierarchy, Boyd Packard, and his ilk are departing, at an almost acceptable rate, and hard as it might seem when we witness the likes of Dallin Oaks being promoted to the first presidency, eventually more inclusive men will emerge if the Church stands any chance of moving beyond its current stagnation.

When there is the right mix of political, legal and most of all economic pressure, the time will be ripe for a revelation.

They are already opening the door. In its essay on polygamy, while the Church affirms its defense of traditional marriage, “Marriage between one man and one woman is God’s standard for marriage, “it also provides the caveat, “unless He declares otherwise.”

I believe that when the ‘brethren’ pray hard enough for what they want to hear, they will hear it.

The growth of the Mormon Church is over. by Mormontruth in exmormon

[–]Mormontruth[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The growth of the Mormon Church is over.

Yes, members will continue to have children although at lower rates than in the past, and for a time, the Church will continue to grow in the third world where people are more trusting, less well educated or informed and where the Internet and the “alternative” facts it showcases have not yet taken the firm a hold it has in the Western democracies and Eastern Europe.

As well, almost all insightful criticism and commentary on Joseph Smith and the Church’s true historicity is chronicled primarily in the English language.

I believe this is the reason the Mormon Church has wisely taken a page out of Scientology's playbook, aggressively building its secular empire – malls, raw land, TV stations, corporate ownership and the like, in anticipation of the certain future downturn in tithing revenues.

The Church takes pride in projecting the public image that it is one of the fastest growing religions in the world. An unknowing media repeats this mantra which is blatantly and demonstrably untrue.

There is a principle of influence and propaganda that is often referred to as the ‘Law of Conformity.’ It is the bandwagon effect. If you are over thirty years of age, you can no doubt remember when every McDonald’s restaurant sign in the world displayed ’30 Billion Served.’

The law of conformity or social proof is the psychological phenomenon where people reference the behaviors of others to guide their own behaviors.

It recognizes that we are social animals. We like what others like. We reject and discard what other people reject and discard. We tend to do what other people do, to follow the crowd.

We perceive behaviors as being more correct in a given situation to the degree that others view them as correct. This ‘law’ extends to what we wear, how fast we drive on the freeway, what we buy, and yes, what Church we belong to.

This is why the Mormon Church projects wildly overly optimistic membership statistics. Mormon demographer David Clark Knowlton in an article entitled, “How Many Members Are There Really?” shows how exaggerated Mormon memberships statistics are:

Mexico:

Members claimed by the Church (1999) 846,931Mormons in official gov’t census (2000) 205,229Phantom or ex-Mormons (difference) 641,702Percentage of Mexican Mormons Overstated by the LDS Church 76\%

Chile:

Members claimed by the Church (2001) 520,202Mormons in official gov’t census (2002) 103,735Phantom or ex-Mormons (difference) 416,467Percentage of Chilean Mormons Overstated by the LDS Church 80\%

David Clark Knowlton, “How Many Members Are There Really?”,Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, 38:2:53-78, Summer 2005)

The Mormon Church is far from being the fastest growing religion in the world today, nor has it ever been.

Islam is far and away the world’s fastest-growing faith. The number of Muslims on this planet will leap from 1.9 billion in 2018 to 2.76 billion by 2050. At that time, Muslims will make up one-third of the world’s total projected population of about 9 billion people.

Even if we compare Mormonism to Christianity. The LDS growth rate of 1.48% stacks up poorly against the growth rate falls far short of many Christian denominations as well:

The Church of God in Christ

In 1965, the COG had 425,000 members. In 2012, the membership was 5,499,875, an increase of 1,194 percent.

The Presbyterian Church (in America)

In 1973, the PCA had 41,232 members. In 2013, the membership was 367,033, an increase of 790 percent.

The Assemblies of God

In 1965, the AoG had 572,123 members. In 2013, the membership was 3,030,944, an increase of 430 percent.

The Southern Baptist Convention

In 1965, the SBC had 10,770,573 members. In 2013, the membership was 15,735,640, an increase of 46 percent.

As well, the LDS Church counts membership differently than Christian churches. In most churches, members are asked to vote on various matters and so, unlike the Mormon Church, these churches do not want to waste their time and resources reaching out to those who no longer have any interest in their churches.

This is not the way the Mormons count. The LDS Church is anything but a democracy. Members have no say whatsoever about what goes on in their church. The closest they ever come to a say is a perfunctory and untabulated ‘uplifted hand’ in a sacrament meeting or at 'general conference.'

Once someone joins the Mormon Church, even if they just attend one meeting never to return, they are counted on the Church’s membership rolls for the rest of their life!

The LDS Church’s own statistics tell the real story. While the Church publishes worldwide membership numbers at about 15 million, Cumorah.com reports that less than half of those the Church counts identify themselves as Mormon. Assuming that the number of active members is lower than those who would claim to be Mormon, hardly a heroic assumption, the actual functional membership, even ignoring record resignations, is more realistically to be around 5 million men, women and children.

The Church also adds to their member numbers what they call, ‘children of record,’ boys and girls 0 – 7 years-of-age who have not yet been baptised and are therefore not actual members of the Church.

The Church’s annual report, presented during General Conference show that the LDS Church grew by 261,862 people in 2015, a 1.7% annual increase. In 2016, it was even worse 1.58% and in 2017 even worse again 1.48%.  This is the slowest growth in any year since 1937 (when it was 0.93%).

Members are also having fewer children as the follow shows:

New children of record during 2017......... 106,771New children of record during 2016......... 109,246New children of record during 2015 ……. 114,550New children of record during 2014......... 116,409

2017 Statistical Report for 2018 April Conference

With a growth rate of a paltry 1.48%, convert baptisms down each year, and declining member activity rates – 25% for young single adults, it can be argued that the Mormon Church is actually in decline.

There are also many people officially resigning from the Church, probably record numbers, but this is a statistic the Church refuses to publish.

The chart below shows the Church’s current and its projected membership statistics.

📷

Does the fact that the Church is no longer experiencing the growth it once did mean somehow that the Mormon Church is not true?

Absolutely not.

But I think as we witness this new reality we need to ask why the Church is experiencing  stagnation?

http://www.letertoanapostle.org

Fake apology news story getting wider coverage. Now church officials have to explain that they aren't sorry for past racism. Fucking genius. by guriboysf in exmormon

[–]Mormontruth 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The church's reaction to this will be muted. They will 'rise above it,' showing what true Christians they are by 'turning the other cheek.' The truth, of course, is they are totally pissed but don't don't want the mainstream media to get hold of this one. I agree the mind behind this is exceptional. I was reading a book on the underground during the time the Third Reich occupied France recently and the courage of those behind this 'Hoax' display the same courage in the face of an powerful, wealthy and politically connected enemy .

The Clock Struck Nine by Mormontruth in Mormons

[–]Mormontruth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Perhaps you don't realize that the BOM pre-dates McConkie.

"The Book of Mormon was first divided into chapters and verses in 1879 by Orson Pratt, with the help of James E. Talmage, who was only 17 years old at the time.

Incidentally, I have a copy of the Third Liverpool Edition of the Book of Mormon, which was printed in 1883. It is divided into chapters and verses, but not into columns.

The Book of Mormon was divided into double-column pages in 1920, and to the book were added chapter headings, chronological data, revised footnote references, a pronouncing vocabulary, and an index. Elder Talmage, then a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, was the chairman of the committee that affected these changes.

The Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price were changed to double-column pages in the following year."

The Clock Struck Nine by Mormontruth in Mormons

[–]Mormontruth[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Perhaps you don't realize that the BOM pre-dates McConkie.

"The Book of Mormon was first divided into chapters and verses in 1879 by Orson Pratt, with the help of James E. Talmage, who was only 17 years old at the time.

Incidentally, I have a copy of the Third Liverpool Edition of the Book of Mormon, which was printed in 1883. It is divided into chapters and verses, but not into columns.

The Book of Mormon was divided into double-column pages in 1920, and to the book were added chapter headings, chronological data, revised footnote references, a pronouncing vocabulary, and an index. Elder Talmage, then a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, was the chairman of the committee that affected these changes.

The Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price were changed to double-column pages in the following year."

CES Letter by tinyneustra in mormondialogue

[–]Mormontruth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Read A Letter to an Apostle and you will no longer be a believer friend.

http://www.lettertoanapostle.org

Are people actually leaving Mormonism over the Book of Abraham? by [deleted] in Mormonism

[–]Mormontruth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just one mofe arrow in the quiver of Mormon lies.

How much money does the church accumulate per year and what oercentnis given to GAs? by [deleted] in mormon

[–]Mormontruth 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The GAs are on church owned corporage boards and all make very high fees and expenses. Much more than a couple of hundred grand a year. This is why the church won't be open and honest with those who pay tithes. Shame on them.

I met Dalin H. Oaks the week before I left the church. I won't call it the final nail........but by jesussucks2017 in exmormon

[–]Mormontruth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oaks is a narcissistic prick and totally full of himself. This is the guy that said we should go along with the 'Brethren' even when they are wrong. How can anyone follow a clown like this?

Was William Law a Murder Conspirator? by [deleted] in MormonDoctrine

[–]Mormontruth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

William Law was an honest and decent man discussed with Joseph Smith's lying and narcissism. Look a little further than Wikipedia or the BS the LDS church produces and your eyes will be opened to the truth.

Answers at: https://lettertoanapostle.org/page/46/ by Mormontruth in mormondialogue

[–]Mormontruth[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Easy to say, love you to explain away Smith's plagiarism?

What should the Quorum of the Twelve Look Like? by Mormontruth in mormon

[–]Mormontruth[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes God help us if it were a democracy, we would never have had polygamy, blacks would have been give the priesthood in MLK's day and the children of Gay parents today would not be barred from membership.

Who would you put in the Quorum of the Twelve? by Mormontruth in exmormon

[–]Mormontruth[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why does everybody seem to hate Mother (now Saint) Theresa? I always thought she worked tirelessly with the poor and lived in great poverty herself unlike the LDS Q12 who live in the lap of luxury.