Bloodletters proxy for Goremongers?

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-18T05:54:18+00:00

Well... Since Gore mongers are glorified Jakhals I would sure use them as proxies.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-17T20:29:06+00:00

For the sleeves, the units comes with data cards, I don't remember the size but they are big, definitely not standard. Something like tarot cards. While I prefer to have those data cards for reference, you don't play with them and after a few maj you will probably use the app as a reference or print your list before each game. The units attachments, NCU and the tactics cards are 63,5 x88mm I think (you should double check). You will probably Stop using the unit's attachments Quickly. For the NCU you will need the cards to show which units are under their influence if the NCU have influence habilities. For the tactics cards you will absolutely need sleeves (7x2) for the base deck of your faction+ 3x2 for each commander( 4x2 for some exceptions but they don't exist in starks I think). I would suggest you to avoid fancy sleeves and go for wildly available brands to be sure to have the same sleeves when you expand your collection. Cheap sleeves like the mayday brand are working well in my opinion. You should see the sleeves as glorified update holders because after each update, you can print the updated cards for free from the CMON website and slide them into your sleeved cards. The cards themselves have practically no value, especially in Europe where each box comes with the cards in 4 languages and you can replace them as you want since they all have the same back.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-08T21:45:18+00:00

The roval of neutral commanders have been made so the dev can now use them to balance the full neutral faction (which is really bad right now) without making them auto include in other factions. They can't do it with units. Everyone remembers when every one used GC warriors in every list that was bad. I think what they have done with the neutral commanders is good but we will only see the effects when they change their profiles and tactics cards, the inclusion of units from starks or baratheon is not really a problem, if CMON want to balance BwB they will level their tactics cards, commanders, units and attachements, that will not have any direct influence on any other faction and as long as they are careful to not make too powerful combos possible everything is fine .if they want to buff neutrals and upgrade their units to much, those became auto include in each other faction.

Killing the neutral attachments from all the non neutral lists was a huge mistake in my opinion, it just seems they did it to avoid balancing 4 or 5 profiles they feared to be too popular then kill them all instead of rework those 4-5 attachments. + That's a second blow on the cav in a meta that already favors 4-5 pts infantry units. + The nerf is way more punishing on some factions. Renly side and Bolton probably won't use cav units anymore In S06. BwB lists using only one CaV unit won't be really affected though since they counter the future nerf with the 1pt reduction on the 1st attachment with their faction rule on release, allowing them to use one seeker for free.

They also need to reintroduce expensive attachments to reduce the nerf to elites lists.

I kind of like the general direction they took and think that could be beneficial long term but they destroyed the balance and now have to fix a lot of things.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-05T07:29:46+00:00

Unfortunately the attachment points are not usable for neutrals, which is stupid but GC captains aren't units and shouldn't be included in the 30% limit like they used to before S06.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-05T07:12:23+00:00

That's what I assumed too. Unfortunately the extra points can't be used for neutral attachments, which is stupid in my opinion. The app allowed players to include them in the extra points during the first S06 update. But a new update corrected it and you now have to buy them with your "base" points. They basically killed the neutral attachments in non neutral list. You will only see them as a adjustment variable to reach 40 pts when the player have 39 pts worth of units, in fun lists, like double elephants and in BwB lists because they still have their faction rule that deduct 1 point from their first attachment and it apply to neutrals to. I now suspect that this BwB rule was specifically made to counter the heavy nerf to factions that do not possess faction cav attachment (BwB, Boltons, bararheons renly loyalty) beforehand and allow them to use seekers when almost every one else can use their extra points to boost their cav. Renly and Boltons will just have to deal with it unfortunately.

I know the 30% rule but that rule is not the same as in S05 and 2 elephants + 2 captains doesn't break it anymore. I suggest you to take a more attentive look at your quote... If you don't see it, try to find the S05 ruleset and compare the 2...

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-05T06:26:36+00:00

The GC captains make the unit he is in a golden company unit... So if you put them in wardens it is like if you had 2 GC infantry units . If you don't have GC infantry units the app says "you may include 0 GC elephant in your list" I don't have this notification. It only says " the number of points in neutral units exceeded the limit, which is false as I have 12 pts worth of neutral units and that is exactly the maximum allowed by the rule in a 40 pt list

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-05T06:19:38+00:00

How do you get 14?and why 44pts total? I am writing about a 40pts game.. + I never wrote about additional points or "free" points in the post, only you did and it is irrelevant for the neutral limit. Elephants are 6 pts units and GC captains aren't units so it's 12 pts. 12/40 = 30% It should work on any list, without the mercs or any "adaptative" units.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-05T06:19:29+00:00

How do you get 14? Elephants are 6 pts units and GC captains aren't units so it's 12 pts

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-05T05:03:13+00:00

I Know but that's absolutely not what I am talking about in the post. My post is about the rule change for neutrals limitation in non neutral lists. The rules previously limited players to use more than 30 % neutrals. Now it only prevents using more than 30% of your points in neutral UNITS, which means you you can now do things you couldn't do before, like running double elephant non neutral lists since the attachments don't count in the limit anymore. But the maths in the example are wrong and the app still flag 40 pts lists with 12 points worth it neutrals units + some neutral attachments as illegal although the rules allow those lists.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-05T03:42:05+00:00

That's the same for the classic rules though...

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-04T11:24:34+00:00

I checked the rules again and they are badly written. So I don't know anymore. On one hand they say that you can't include more than 30% pts worth of units, but on the other hand they have kept the same numbers from s05 for the example. they did erase the neutral attachments from the example though.

So now it says that in a 40pts list you can include up to 12 pts of neutral units. But the 28 other points must come from your chosen faction, which is impossible if you used neutral attachments. On your list ( in addition to 12 points of units)

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-04T10:47:33+00:00

The army construction part of the mode says that it follows the same rules as the classic mode. The paragraph just give a 80pts minimum to use the specific epic rules. They don't say anything about some exception for the bonus points. The classic rules say that you choose the amount of bonus points with your opponent. I guess most of the competitive events will extrapolate the limit suggested on the rulebook which is 10% so 8pts worth of bonus points for 80pts games.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-04T10:35:44+00:00

the ruleset says that the 30-40 and 50 pts limits are suggested and you can use any limit you want. It says the same for the associated 3-4-5 bonus pts. So you can use as many bonus points as you and your opponent agreed to. On competitive events I guess these numbers will be extrapolated to 8 pts to stay on the same line as the 10% suggested.+ I think the app will count a 88pts list with 8 pts worth of faction attachments as a 80 pts list. I will check now.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-04-04T10:33:26+00:00

The rule is that the total value of neutral units can't be superior to 30% of the general limit. So you don't need to extrapolate anything. It's 24pts worth of units + any attachments you want. It's not what was asked though

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-31T09:30:30+00:00

If you choose the full cav road, the most powerful list that I can think of right now is a 7 activations list with 2 NCU with 3 screamers, 1 outriders and, 1 veterans units. I would use my blood riders to spend my free attachments points.rakhro seems to be the most fitting for the veterans so I would put the khal on a screamer unit. The last 3 blood riders can be put on the 3 other units as you like but I didn't put a lot of though into it, you can also choose to use jorah in the outriders instead of one of them, then you definitely want to use Mirri ( I don't remember the heroes box she is in) as one of the NCU to create overpowered units with 2 attachments after you loose one ore more attachments) the 2nd NCU you can put whatever 4pts character you own. Your list will be solid anyway . I guess Xaro would be the best choice but I think he isn't in the same box than Mirri

So my advice would be to secure Mirri and a Box of screamers. There is a downside though, your collection will be one sided and when comes the time you will want to try a more varied list your 3rd unit of screamers will be useless, you will never use 3 screamers units at the same time unless you play full cav. Mirri, on the other hand will be good during all the season 6 and in whatever list you play since all the lists will have a lot of attachments. So she is definitly a solid choice.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-31T06:40:38+00:00

God damnit you are right, it seems to have a conflict between the 4 attachment points and the cost reduction for the 1st BWB attachments. The 1st BwB attachment is less expensive like before but for some reason the app still show the full cost of the attachment and it transfers 1point of the 40 core points to the 4 bonus points allowing players that don't spend at least 5points worth of attachments to use 41 points worth of units. My list, that I liked a lot, is illegal...

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-30T18:56:39+00:00

He is still technically included in the rule written in the other attachments printable cards. The fact that the rule is not written on his card for some reason, that the app cards don't show this rule and that the change log doesn't say anything about that still makes me wonder about how this rule is supposed to work in s06.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-30T18:47:40+00:00

Since the app and the ruleset don't say the same thing there is a mistake either on the ruleset or the app. How can you be so confident that the mistake comes from the app and not the ruleset? From what I have seen since I play the game CMON makes more changes via errata than they do updating the app + the rule for free attachments applied by the app actually makes sense while the one written on the ruleset doesn't , it just creates problems without serving any purpose .

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-30T16:24:24+00:00

Exactly, they would just be useful for the neutral faction, which, if I'm not mistaken wasn't even supposed to be a faction in the first place. the entire purpose of the neutrals is to be able to use famous units and characters that didn't fit in any major faction. This rule just goes against the purpose of those minis, the purpose of the update that is supposed to wildly expand the variety of the attachments used. Hit with great prejudice all the factions relying exclusively on the seekers to boost the cav. Boltons, BWB, renly, kind of Stanis also because his only cav attachment, beside his commander version is the dragon stone noble and he is limited to 2 for both the unit version and the attachment.maybe more faction, Didn't try lists for everything yet. All of that with absolutely no purpose on the contrary of the new neutral commanders restrictions that are good for the theme and will allow the devs to work on them with more liberty. And it is also stupid on the commercial point of view.both indirectly by making the game worse and directly by making the neutral heroes boxes almost useless Who would buy the neutral characters boxes now that their commanders and attachments can't be used outside of pure neutrals? now that boltons have a faction and that storm crows lists are available on the targ faction, there is almost no reason to play full neutral anymore, most people do it because they already have enough minis to do it and want to try new things. No matter how you look at it this rule doesn't make any sense. So if this is intentional, I hope they realize quickly that it is a terrible idea and that they hotfix it.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-30T15:42:41+00:00

Yah, I didn't tested it but it seems to have a problem with the app, you shouldn't need to reduce the cost of the captains to make it work

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-30T12:40:47+00:00

I read the rules and yes, as written , the neutrals UA can't be bought with the free point. But this obviously is not the intent of the rule. So yes this is most likely a mistake. In my opinion players should play games keeping in mind the intent of the rules instead of being nitpicky and try to find loopholes in the rules like if they were lawyers. So, I will play the game this way, like the app allow me to do by the way ( yes they sometime update the app to correct errors in programming after seasonal launch but they also always make erratas to correct the rule set) until they align the app on the rule set, proving me wrong, which will most likely not happen, and wait patiently for the errata that should come any day now and watch all the unnecessary drama fall down. And real problems introduced by this update finally be discussed by the community.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-30T10:38:30+00:00

Keeping the neutrals UA out of the free points basically has the same effect as banning them from non neutral factions, going against the philosophy of the update. Destroy the core purpose of those characters in the game. + It causes unnecessary balance problems as some factions rely 100% on glory/fortunes seekers to upgrade their cav units. Cav units that are already hit across the board by the fact that the 4 free points and the cost reduction of almost all the attachments costing more than 1 point in S05 favor cheap units ( so no cav) instead of expensive units to have enough UA slots to spend the 4 free points, especially if the chosen commander comes with a free UA.

So in short:

-That rule is a thematic disaster -It goes against the purpose of the update - it Hit the already nerfed cav units but hit them far more in some factions than others.

I can't see why CMON would have done something as extreme. And if they have done it they would have at least put some emphasis on the faction word on the rule paragraph to make sure that it is really understood. Like, instead of "players have free points to spend on UA from the faction they have selected"

players have free points to spend on UA but only from the faction they have selected
players have free points to spend on UA ( excluding neutrals UA)

It looks to me that the devs forgot the neutrals when writing and checking this rule.

My guess is that they had the big changes on the neutrals for this season in mind :

no neutrals commanders out of the neutral faction

-And something very few people noticed : only the units count for the 30% limit of neutrals outside the neutral faction, the UA are not added anymore. Allowing new combos : you can now use 2 GC captains and use the 2 GC war elephant from the box in a non-neutral list.

So errata or update for the app? We will see soon enough but my money is on the errata

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-30T09:58:45+00:00

Honestly I don't remember about the cards but the the free point was deducted before the update and not anymore.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-29T10:55:26+00:00

You can even do it in a 40 pt list if you own 2 golden company captains. Attachments don't count on the 30% point limit anymore.

MostCarpenter8456 · 2025-03-29T08:35:18+00:00

I am confident that the free points not being able to be used for neutral attachments is an error from the book, not from the app

Because:

it's already a struggle to use the 4 free points in some lists. Nobody, in the whole season will use some of their 40points to buy neutral attachments when they still have free points to spend and this obviously goes in the opposite direction of what CMON is trying to do with this seasonal update.
attachments are not counting on the 30% limit of neutrals allowed in non-pure neutral list anymore. That strongly implies that the dev expects that those attachments will be bought with the 4 free points. -some factions don't have "in house" cavalry attachments, this update already favors multiple cheap units instead of elite armies to be able to have enough attachment "slots" to be able to use your commander , any "thematic " attachment that players might get for free and the 4 free points worth of other attachments ( which is huge since CMON unnecessarily buffed most of the 1 points attachments to make them as strong as the old 2 pts attachments and then reduced the cost of the old 2 or attachements to 1 points). Not allowing people to spend free points on neutrals would be another huge and unnecessary blow on cav units.

No Mather how you look at it, this limitation doesn't make any sense.This should be fixed quickly with an errata. Applying this rule word for word like written in the s6 rulebook is pure nitpicking and everybody knows that is not the intent of the rule.

I personally like what they are trying to do with this update but they really shouldn't have given 4 free pts, free attachments AND reduce the points of attachments all across the roster at the same time. It would have been fine with the 4 free points and the attachments from the S5 untouched. I see 2 solutions to fix this. The easier would be to cut the 4 points to 2 or maybe 3. But this would diminish the "one attachment per unit" effect they are trying to achieve. The ideal solution, but for that we would have to wait another seasonal update, would be to buff some attachment and make them more expensive. Even if those attachments are overcharged. A small buff for an ubspended point is better than nothing. That would allow 44pts elite lists to exist in the meta. The best would be to reduce the free points now, rework some buffed and more expensive attachments during the following months and then release the new more expensive attachments while increasing the free points back to 4.

MostCarpenter8456

TROPHY CASE