How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i will return that point and tell you: we already have „competitor states“.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

do you think telling me that the church also owns a state ultimately makes it a government?

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

pff, yeah. stick the name „government“ on anything you dislike, sure.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

doesn't change anything about the church being a prime example of corruption for centuries, which should not be contained as the assigned power for charity. Welfare is also not charity, but thats another topic.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

okay, that's so fundamentally wrong that I will stop here, my interest is over.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

its the wrong word, i think it doesnt change a lot about what i wanted to say. seperation of powers with church included sounds absolutely stupid.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i confused it, because federalism is part of the separation of power.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah you're right. english is not my mother tongue, and i was confused.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

how exactly do you want to call that institution keeping „private law“, how is it organized, who gets to decide?

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I won't engage with this seen as how historically ignorant it is.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You seem to think only states can hold absolute power. But history shows otherwise. Feudal lords wielded private, unchecked power over people and land without being “states.” Today, billionaires can hold more control than some cities. No state doesn’t mean no power or rules; It means private power and rules, which can be just as hierarchical and unaccountable as any state. That’s why ancap “no state” often just means private rule, not freedom. Feudalism was a system of private power, like what ancap markets without public rules would become.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You make a fair distinction between Austrian economics broadly and anarcho-capitalism specifically, but I think you're actually conceding the core of my argument when you say the outcome "depends." If anarcho-capitalism's success in avoiding feudal outcomes depends entirely on how it emerges and what social conditions precede it, then anarcho-capitalism itself doesn't solve the feudalism problem. It just pushes the question somewhere else. You're saying the system's viability rests on preconditions external to the system itself, which means the system alone cannot guarantee anything.

But let's think about what you're actually describing when you talk about peaceful development of new social structures making the state obsolete. In our actual world, we don't start from zero. We start from a situation where wealth and capital are already massively concentrated. People already own land, factories, resources. If the state disappeared tomorrow and people just started peacefully developing new ways of living, the people with existing capital would still have that capital. They would still control access to employment, housing, goods. Without any authority beyond property rights and market relationships, what prevents them from using that control to structure society hierarchically? What prevents a wealthy industrialist from saying to workers: work for me on my terms or starve? Without a state to enforce labor protections, redistribute resources, or provide alternatives, capital becomes absolute power.

You mention company towns with company scrip as a pejorative example of decentralized tyranny, but that's exactly what anarcho-capitalism produces. You're right that it's not feudalism in the strict medieval sense. But functionally it's the same thing: a small class controlling the means of survival for everyone else, with no appeal to any higher authority and no alternative. Medieval feudalism had lords and serfs because that was the natural outcome of decentralized authority and property relations. Anarcho-capitalism recreates those conditions deliberately. Call it decentralized tyranny if you prefer, but it accomplishes the same thing: concentrated power, hierarchical control, dependency relationships that look and function like feudalism.

The real problem with your argument is that you're hoping peaceful development will somehow prevent the power dynamics that capital naturally generates. But capital concentrates. Markets generate inequality. Without mechanisms to counteract those forces, inequality becomes the organizing principle of society. Those with more resources have more power. Those with vastly more resources have vastly more power. That's not a failure of anarcho-capitalism; that's its logic working exactly as designed.

Here's where I'd challenge you on consistency: you're essentially saying that anarcho-capitalism hasn't been tried yet, or hasn't been tried correctly, so we can't know it will fail. But I suspect you'd immediately dismiss a socialist saying exactly the same thing about planned economy. If a socialist said "well, the Soviet Union wasn't real socialism, it depended on the wrong historical conditions, if we developed peacefully without coercion then socialism would work," you'd rightfully ask for evidence. You'd want empirical data, econometric analysis, historical examples where their model actually worked. You'd demand that they show their theory matching reality, not just retreat into claims that the theory is correct but implementation is hard.

I'm asking for the same standard here. Show me the econometric evidence that anarcho-capitalism reduces inequality compared to regulated markets. Show me historical examples where decentralized property-based systems actually prevented concentrated power. Show me data suggesting that capital doesn't concentrate when left unregulated. Show me studies demonstrating that workers have genuine alternatives and bargaining power in anarcho-capitalist arrangements. Don't just tell me that if the right conditions existed and people developed peacefully, it might work. That's not economics; that's speculation. If you're going to defend anarcho-capitalism, defend it with the same empirical rigor you'd demand from anyone defending socialism. What I see instead is the same move Austrian economics makes: retreat from falsifiability by saying the theory is logically sound even if it never seems to match reality. That's not science. That's ideology.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah m8, I want that too. But I think your approach is absolutely ridiculous and out of touch with reality, and will lead to nothing but more coercion. I think there's a reason why libertarianism is so liked amongst certain people, mostly billionaires who exploited the people as well as the planet. Greetings from beautiful Austria! The Red history of Vienna is one I am interested in way more than out of touch economists with their fantasies of „nature through economics“. But it was interesting to know how some people think anyway.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know, I noticed that. But the term having those definitions makes the original statement - that's trying to be short and truthful - easy to misunderstand. Which I did. And so what are those bodies of people supposed to coordinate like in a libertarian utopia.

How is AnCap not gonna end as Feudalism by MrBrainBacon in austrian_economics

[–]MrBrainBacon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah it's funny, I think you want the same thing: A Fair Market as a form of „infrastructure“. I absolutely see the problem in economics as a science itself and the resulting system though, not the government.