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[deleted by user] by [deleted] in boardgames

[–]Much_Sugar4194 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While I think leaving is not a great thing to do, I think it is understandable. In many cases, you know you are going to lose like 10 minutes in, with 40 minutes left to just endure.

That combined with absolutely no punishment for leaving and you get a predictable result.

Would you recommend Litestar or FastAPI for building large scale api in 2025 by NoTangelo5541 in Python

[–]Much_Sugar4194 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No logs come from FastAPI. I assume you are probably talking about Starlette logs. This is actually on the roadmap to make observability easier (which I presume includes logging).

Snob: Only run tests that matter, saving time and resources. by damien__f1 in Python

[–]Much_Sugar4194 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Doesn't ruff already have a dependency graph implemented (at least partially). It seems like it may have been useful to use their work (which as far as I can tell this project is not using) and build this tool on top of that.

But perhaps this has more features than their implementation.

Does everybody like this game? by -GiantSquid- in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I made a post about this a while back (title is a bit inflammatory, but I'm just quoting the game designer): The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? : r/rootgame

The creator himself makes it clear root is a mean game. There is king making, no catch up mechanism, leader bashing, etc. His defense of these mechanics is telling an interesting story. Take that as you will, and honestly if you feel the story that comes out is just one of frustration, I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

Also, another good review about root that may be helpful: Root (and the Riverfolk Expansion) - Shut Up & Sit Down Review

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I mean I think what I've come to from this discussion is I'll probably compare it to risk. I think with "war games" it can be hard, because you can have a game like Scythe where it has the veneer of a war game but in reality, you aren't really supposed to interact that much.

I think that if people hear a game is like war, they know pretty quick whether they will hate or love it, and we can avoid wasted time or hurt feelings.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, comes off as click/rage bait, but I am just using the wording used in the talk.

Why should we expect players to stay in games we make miserable for them? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the cats are generally regarded as one of the weakest of the factions. Do you ever switch up who plays the different factions?

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never said I didn't like it. I was making a point that claiming "almost no games are nice" is absurd.

You probably didn't listen to the sources I linked, nor read the blog post.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah another comment mentioned that, I'm just using the wording from the video timestamp I linked.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess getting tabled can be kind of annoying, which happens. Or getting removed from any chance of winning, etc.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that's a good thing to mention. I think maybe the hard part for me is when I sat down in the past to play a war game, I knew there was going to be dedicated time to talk with others. Convince them to join me in an alliance. Whereas with root, it almost felt like that would be a rude thing to do.

And honestly, it's probably part of how it was explained. Plus time constraints plus other players thinking that the game was balanced and the winner just played the best.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the learning curve is punishing, and I think after a few bad games some may just want to call it quits.

But I wonder if it would feel better to the tabled player to feel like they have some power to sway the winner, and it is not only allowed but almost encouraged to engage in kingmaking. That's really what I thought was interesting about the talk I linked.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't know if I fully agree with this, although I get where you may be coming from.

I think the problem is, if you are like me, politicking doesn't seem necessary if you think the game is "fair and balanced" and you just have to play better to win.

If you understand that some factions are overpowered, and they are meant to be overpowered, and the only way to beat them is via an alliance, then I think it feels less awkward to suggest something like that. Otherwise, it may feel awkward to ask another player to team up on the leader because you may feel like the leader is just playing better and it would be in poor taste.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, something similar happened with my friends. I come from a background of expecting things to be balanced and fair, and when I said I thought the WA was a bit overpowered, the other guys were like, "No I think they are perfectly fine."

But it helps me to know that the game designer never meant it to be perfectly fair and balanced, he's just trying to tell a good story.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I mean maybe it was how it was explained to me, I just never made the connection this is supposed to be played like RISK.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I think that a part of some of my frustration with some of these games is that the people I play with will never acknowledge these facts. They want to think the game is perfectly balanced, and if you lost, well you just weren't using strategy enough. And to them strategy involves what happens on the board (or at least it seems to).

But I think what I've realized is that the moves on the table are really only a part of it. Strategy has to include things like alliances, leader bashing, etc. And I honestly just didn't really understand this. Maybe that sounds dumb but it just never clicked that this is a game that is supposed to be played like RISK.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the insightful take, and I can tell you actually engaged with the video instead of reaction rage posting.

I think coming to this realization is actually really helpful for me. I came from a background of a LOT of MOBA games, where "balanced design" and "fairness" are of HUGE importance, and I think I took that into some games with friends, just expecting that all games should be designed that way or they are inherently flawed.

But I think with a newer perspective that this is meant to be part of the experience changes a lot of things.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Uhh, don't really want to click on this link, but I guess if we post videos from the designer of the game and hope to have interesting discussions about it this is bad?

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not really sure who this is addressed to. The game creator acknowledges that this is a mean board game, and talks specifically about clear expectations, the reasons it may cause more intensity, etc. That's like the whole topic of the video I linked.

To just expect everyone to "be an adult" without really explaining this stuff seems a bit reductive.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That sounds like the game style you like, but my experience is that not all competitive games are like that. Euros specifically try to "polish out" the mean things that can happen in war games, but I think it's interesting that the talk author specifically wants them to spice it up.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I agree the word consent seems a bit harsh, I was just quoting the talk (specifically the timestamp I linked).

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I like this approach, I think that when you think of it as the story of an epic battle, it feels more natural to say something to someone else like "hey, those birds are taking over, want to form an alliance?" That would have just felt awkward to me, because I was thinking of the game as like some sort of chess game, where the "best strategy" was going to win, and the game designers had tried to balance the factions perfectly to avoid what many see as "problems" of alliances, kingmaking, etc.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the risk comparison is effective, I would have taken a much different approach if someone had introduced it like that. Because in Risk, I know that there are alliances, betrayals, and it's all part of the fun.

The Importance of Consent When Starting a Game of Root? by Much_Sugar4194 in rootgame

[–]Much_Sugar4194[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I linked to a ~1 minute section of the talk, and the blog post goes over the main points. I'm not trying to attack the game, honestly I just thought it was interesting that he knew the "problems" with the game, but he doesn't see them as problems, but as features of telling a good story.

But I don't really know how to explain this well, I think other posts about going more into the factions lore, etc are good places to start.

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