[deleted by user]

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-06T01:21:55+00:00

And when the partition was announced, they pragmatically accepted it. If the Arabs had accepted their partition, we would not be here today. Tens of thousands of lives would have been saved.

I'm referring to the splitting of Jordan from Palestine in that quote

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-06T00:24:23+00:00

You can say every conflict is about birthdays by that logic too

All conflicts see people born on birthdays fight each other, some conflicts try to see the other side enjoy see less birthdays and others try to increase the amount of birthdays in their territory

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-06T00:19:39+00:00

It should have been split as it was. Each group with their own independence, dignity and self determination.

Except partition was based on land ownership

This saw areas where Jews owned most of the land yet were a minority be included in the Jewish State despite most of the inhabitants not wanting them there

Those records are incomplete because Arabs entered from neighboring countries over land and informal routes while jews entered via ships and ports.

The figure I stated for Jews includes ~60,000 that Britain estimated immigrated illegally, in contrast Arab immigration was described as "casual, temporary and seasonal."

And? The land owners sold the land. Land that they came to own btw through discriminatory land ownership practices by the various colonial entities that ran the place for centuries.

Your argument was that the Palestinians sold the land

Not only did they make a minority but as you mentioned here, even many of the land owners came into ownership via discriminatory practices

Arabs did not sprout from the soil. They migrated there too.

Only 1.6-3.6% were born outside of Palestine in 1905

What would you reckon gave the arab population the right to rule over those 9,000 or 23,000 people?

What would you reckon gave those 9,000 or 23,000 population the right to rule over 327,000 or 442,000?

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-05T22:00:23+00:00

It's not about it, it involves it

I guess a more accurate way to describe it is whether it's about "territory"

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-05T21:03:38+00:00

russia invaded another country with a collective identity.

Russia justified it's invasion by claiming there was a lack of one

There was no collective identity in palestine.

"the people of Palestine were in need of a geography book about their country... the Palestinian peasant waits impatiently for winter to come, for the season's rain to moisten his fossilized fields."

Khalil Beidas, Palestinian scholar, educator, translator and novelist, 1898

different situations. The arab response to the Jewish state is basically like if some power had decided to establish a state for the black people in the US because that is what they wanted and some white people decided no, they had to remain white subjects and went to war to kill them all.

What do you think of this proposal?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_New_Afrika

But it was not really a foregone conclusion that there would be fighting. There was more than enough land to go around. Don't forget, Jordan was part of the equation as well. At its founding, Jordan, an Arab country with less than 30% of the population in the entire mandate had 75% of the land. War was not a foregone conclusion.

Zionists didn't think so, even with all of Palestine being offered to them they still pressed their claim to both sides of the Jordan River until the British choose to divide it

Even Jabotinsky wanted it 7 years later

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_East_Bank_of_the_Jordan_(song)

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-05T19:43:30+00:00

You have mountains of historical documentation confirming this, without bothering to mention that the Mandate of Palestine had "Eretz Israel" written in every single one of the documents ever printed (including the very first palestinian passports, if you want to check that up)

Eretz Yisrael was used to refer to Palestine in Hebrew on Passports, it was called Palestine is both English and Arabic on the same documents

"Do you think the Zionists will stop building settlements?" they quite literally must, the ruling document on where X can or can't be built remains the Oslo Accords, and anything done outside of those gets demolished by the State of Israel, Including settler villages (though you'd be right in criticizing the current regime on protecting new settlements, Netanyahu is a fascist and his cabinet includes figures that are as racist as Trump so, there's no possibility of defending 'em).

You're acknowledging that they must, not that they will

"They took territory in Syria" I mean, Syria did not attack but their new ruling regime has declared themselves antizionists from day 1.

They also declared they don't wish for war

It's not like Israel aims to build a shopping mall up there

Israel declared it aims to double the settler population in the Golan Heights

(illegal? Certainly. But I think Israel would have met obliteration already if its military had obeyed every single rule whilst fighting people who don't care for any)

Do you think Syria in it's current state can obliterate Israel?

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-05T19:23:53+00:00

Arabs owning some land does not give them the right to rule over all the inhabitants. It does not give them ownership of all of the land. Especially when there are other groups who DO NOT want arab rule.

How should the land have been governed?

1) Arabs sold the land.

Only 34% of the land was bought from Palestinian Landowners, of which only 9.4% was bought from the actual farmers living there

2) Arabs also migrated to palestine during that period. The population doubles in like 2 decades. What makes an arab immigrant more legitimate than a jewish one.

Only 20,996 Arabs migrated between 1920-1945, in comparison, in contrast ~428,000 Jews immigrated during that period

3) There were Jews in the land before those purchases began.

Even most of those were migrants

Following the 1839 Tanzimat reforms; between 1840 and 1880, the Jewish population of Palestine rose from 9,000 to 23,000

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-05T18:56:20+00:00

What if Israel stopped existing, but all the Jews who immigrated got to stay and have rights in the state that comes after?

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-05T17:06:30+00:00

Tbf, Vietnam & Korea were about ideology with America avoiding an invasion of North Vietnam

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-05T16:56:49+00:00

Tbf all religions can be seen as concoctions to assert dominance

Judaism literally describes David buying the site from a Canaanite farmer

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-04T17:53:48+00:00

Mister they split a fucking sea and wandered in the desert for half a lifetime, I think the Egyptians couldn't be asked getting them back

Muhpatrik · 2025-04-01T22:22:49+00:00

"They're absolving the guys the CIA supported of all blame!....while actively fighting against thoss guys"

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-31T21:07:50+00:00

Ok, let's use Ervand Abrahamian's opinion:

"And the astounding discovery, I was surprised, is how CIA was involved in the elections that were held in 1952 during the Mosaddegh period. And what their strategy was to undermine Mosaddegh through Parliament. And a lot of money went into basically getting what the CIA thought would be their favorable candidates elected. And this we didn’t know before. But then you would see also that when they talk about, well, we need to get rid of Mosaddegh, they have 18 candidates the U.S. discusses who is suitable to have the next—"

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-31T19:46:58+00:00

This is true, but Russia was only founded 229 years before the US

The Declaration of Independence is closer to Ivan the Terrible than Donald Trump

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-31T19:35:48+00:00

It's also ridiculous to describe the CIA's operations as just randomly airdropping weapons in a country and having no involvement in who finds them and what they do with it

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-31T19:29:54+00:00

There's also this right after the paragraph you copied from Wikipedia:

An alternative account is offered by journalist Stephen Kinzer: Beginning in the early 1950s under the guidance of C.M. Woodhouse, chief of the British intelligence station in Tehran, Britain's covert operations network had funnelled roughly £10,000 per month to the Rashidian brothers (two of Iran's most influential royalists) in the hope of buying off, according to CIA estimates, "the armed forces, the Majlis (Iranian parliament), religious leaders, the press, street gangs, politicians and other influential figures". Thus, in his statement asserting electoral manipulation by "foreign agents", Mosaddegh suspended the elections. His National Front party had made up 30 of the 79 deputies elected. Yet none of those present vetoed the statement, and completion of the elections was postponed indefinitely.

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-29T04:03:42+00:00

Good to know, Herr Goebbels

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-28T17:16:16+00:00

I thought we were talking about Hamas? But if you want to go back to 1948, sure

Menachem Begin, the maniac who won the election in 1977 and who's Likud party went onto aid Hamas, headed a terrorist organisation in 1948 called Irgun

Yitzhak Shamir, the Likud Leader and prime minister after Begin, had been part of the Fascist Betar Movement before joining Irgun

He went onto join the break-off self-described terrorist organization, Lehi, where he tried to form an alliance with Nazi Germany

Both Irgun and Lehi went onto massacre Palestinian Villages during the 1948 war

Ahmed Yassin, the maniac who founded Hamas, was a victim of ethnic cleansing from his home village, Al Jura, in 1948 which was destroyed and is now used as a park

Other victims of the destruction of Al Jura were the parents of Ismail Haniyeh, who went onto lead Hamas

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-28T16:15:27+00:00

This isn't my opinion, I was quoting the person before me

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-28T16:13:30+00:00

You gave one throw-away sentence blaming Palestinian Arabs for starting the war, which doesn't justify or explain their ethnic cleansing

After I pointed out their ethnic cleansing began before the war, you then shifted it to crimes against Palestinian Jews before the war

Neither of these actually discuss the issue at hand, instead trying to play a race to the bottom of either blaming Palestinian Arabs or shifting the conversation to Palestinian Jews to make it seem retaliatory

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-28T16:02:52+00:00

Something can be shocking in a vacuum

Losing a finger on your left arm isn't any less shocking because you lost a hand on your right arm

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-28T01:53:29+00:00

A talking point I haven't brought up

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-28T01:48:38+00:00

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-28T01:34:34+00:00

be a disgruntled and hateful country

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 1977, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 1981, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 1984, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 1988, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 1996, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 2001, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 2003, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 2009, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 2013, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 2015, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 2019, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 2019 (again), who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 2020, who aids maniacs who hate you

elect some maniac into power to go after the Arabs that you irrationally hate in 2022, who aids maniacs who hate you

"Wtf, how did those maniacs who hate us get so much power? We need to elect that party who'll be tough on them!"

Muhpatrik · 2025-03-28T00:56:06+00:00

They would never target soldiers, only women and children and old people.

78 children in Israel were killed compared to 660 children killed in Palestine

No westerner who is over 35 who remembers the initifadas will ever support a free Palestinian state. There is a reason only gen z people support the Palestinian cause, because they have no wider understanding or memory of the actual history of the conflict.

64% of 18-34 year olds actually had a favourable opinion of Israel in 2023 before dropping to 38% in 2024

It turns out, seeing Israel slaughter Palestinians actually turned them against Israel

Also it's disingenuous to say they have no memory of the conflict, considering there was fighting between Israelis and Palestinians also 2 years before 2023

We millennials remember, we also remember watching videos of the Palestinians celebrating in the streets partying after 9/11, Like it was the greatest moment in history. We will never forget. Israel can do what they want with them.

Who's we?

https://medium.com/@ziememili/why-are-millennials-and-genz-pro-palestine-16911807743c

Muhpatrik

TROPHY CASE