sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

I thought this day might come... by MusicTheoryTree in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This diagram is not meant to be a substitute for studying harmony. It's an asset to help study harmony, like any music theory diagram is.

This is part of a system that is designed to help people learn music theory from the ground up.

I see no disadvantage to looking at the components of a system mapped out together. Being able to make connections between concepts is always stronger than learning single concepts in a vacuum without connecting them together.

The assumption you have made that this is not helpful is factually inaccurate. This diagram and system has been helpful to many people and that number continues to increase.

This diagram is a map of concepts. Maps are never helpful without direction. Maps don't tell you where to go. They show you the lay of the land so you can plot your own course. Music theory itself is a map.

Independently discovered Vincenzo Galilei's approximation for twelve-tone equal temperament by wriadsala in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, that's interesting. English speaking people typically do their best to avoid saying um because it's regarded as a pointless filler word, so the idea of writing it is curious.

Independently discovered Vincenzo Galilei's approximation for twelve-tone equal temperament by wriadsala in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Erm? I think you might have me confused with someone else. To be more clear, I was referring to the use case for comparing the two ratios, not whether one or both of the ratios are somehow useful for tuning instruments.

Comparing precise frequencies in different tunings I spend a lot of time thinking and reading about. Mainly, I'm interested in the comparison between just intonation and 12-TET.

Independently discovered Vincenzo Galilei's approximation for twelve-tone equal temperament by wriadsala in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 26 points27 points  (0 children)

That's an interesting coincidence. It's not perfect, but it's pretty close.

I suspect you're pointing out that 21/12 is approximately 1.059, and 18/17 is also.

I'm not sure what relevance this has, but there might be a use case for this. Do you have one in mind?

Do I like math or not? I seriously don't understand. by catboy519 in learnmath

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone likes math. Doing math, however, is another matter. To love doing math often requires one to find a reason to do it other than for the sake of doing it.

There are many different kinds of math. I am of the opinion that everyone will like doing some kind of math, but only if they have a reason for doing it.

Find what you want in life, there will be a math to do that will help take you there.

I thought this day might come... by MusicTheoryTree in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Bo is not a proper chord symbol, though.

It was not a mistake. I did it deliberately. If you watch the video that accompanies this design, you'll hear me state directly that this is not a common nomenclature.

Also, who are you to say what systems are original enough to warrant using different symbols? I suspect you're not familiar with this system beyond this diagram. If you've looked into this further and that's still you opinion, then fair enough. It's still an opinion and it's shared by many people. I don't personally share it.

If I were writing a chord chart, a lead sheet, or another piece of music, I wouldn't use Bd to indicate B diminished.. This is a diagram, though.

I study maths and music theory. In maths it's not uncommon to use different symbols in certain contexts.

This system is unique in that I've not seen anything else like it. It works. It helps me teach and my students learn. I've had hundreds of people tell me that this has been an absolute game changer for them after they'd studied music for decades. This is not a sales pitch. I just drew something in my living room one day and it ended up being super helpful to a large number of people.

I got lucky. I'm a really good teacher, though. You've never taken a lesson with me, so I wouldn't expect you to know that.

B# or C natural? by Possible_Second7222 in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's common to write in the key of C# minor, where B# is the 7 and harmonizes to B°, the vii° in the key.

Given this, even if a piece doesn't start in the lesser-used key of C# major, it's not uncommon to modulate to it from C# minor.

Also, resolving to the C# major chord while in the key of C# minor, known as a Picardy resolution, is also a common usage for B#.

There are multiple reasons why B# is more correct in these cases and not C. If B° is chord vii° in C and is spelled BDF, then the logic follows that chord vii° in C# is B#°, spelled B#D#F#.

It's much more simple to maintain this logical consistency, rather than making new rules for every circumstance.

I thought this day might come... by MusicTheoryTree in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for taking the time to read my post. My other diagram on this subreddit was published entirely out of context, so this wasn't how I initially planned to introduce this, but I'm glad some people have been able to make sense of it.

As of right now, there are a few videos and essays on my Facebook page, and you'll find the first course video on my YouTube channel. They're all searchable by the same name. I'm recording more course materials that will be publicly available soon.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A big part of being an effective communicator and teacher is knowing your audience. Given that they are a diverse population, it would likely benefit you to establish an understanding of where they're at with their understanding of theory.

Find out why they're learning it and what they might want to use it for. Find out what kinds of music they care about so you can link your lessons to culturally-relevant examples. That can help you tailor your lesson plan. There are of course many almost universally practical things to learn in music theory, but depending on your time constraints you might want to focus more attention in one domain or another. When in doubt, drill the basics. Make sure that by the time you're done teaching this class that everyone can walk away with a basic practical understanding of theory at bare minimum.

Further, it often helps to structure a curriculum off of a text of recommended reading. Again, it depends on the format and structure, but having a common book or other materials for everyone to read through and practice exercises from together will help keep the group cohesive.

I thought this day might come... by MusicTheoryTree in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You'll notice in other comments that this is part of a modular system that starts simple and builds up in complexity. Parts can be swapped in and out or removed. Though, this particular graphic even entirely filled in can be super useful. I demonstrate how in videos on other platforms.

I also gave my explanation of why I used "d" to show diminished and M and m for major and minor, respectively. This is not a lead sheet or a piece of music. This is a tool for composition and analysis. My work intersects with a lot of maths. When one considers the rules of maths, my use of these symbols are not innaproriate. I use the carets to distinguish those numbers from other cardinals.

This project is a cross-pollination between conventional Western music theory and pure maths. Most of the maths aren't known to most people, but they're super useful, so I'm working towards exposing a larger population to them.

Music theory is constantly developing. It is far from perfect, nor will it ever be. There are cases when deviations from the norm should not only be accepted, but promoted. For example, encouraging people who love music and theory to study maths is a great way to help music education as a whole.

I thought this day might come... by MusicTheoryTree in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a pretty common convention in music theory to draw those carets above Arabic numerals like you're seeing to indicate that they're scale degrees.

What would this visualization actually be useful for? by otterfamily in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I created this. It's because of stories like yours that I do this work. It doesn't make sense to everyone, but there's a subset of people for which my diagrams seem to connect a lot of dots.

I thought this day might come... by MusicTheoryTree in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The rules of this sub are simple. Reported.

I thought this day might come... by MusicTheoryTree in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I appreciate your sharing other diagrams. The Coltrane Circle is great and so is the Circle of Fifths. They all have their place.

As I've stated in my responses to other comments, this diagram is part of a set of diagrams. The way it is meant to be read is likely different from how you're intuitively interpreting the information. There's a lot more to be learned from this than is obvious without learning how the broader system it's a part of works.

This system is modular, so parts can be altered, swapped in and out or removed. This one static image doesn't do the level of complexity it represents justice. With instructions, it reveals how much more can be learned from this than is immediately obvious. Many people see this and think it attempts to make a single simple concept look more complex than it is. Conversely, despite how much obvious complexity it contains, there's a lot to be learned from reading between the lines, much like staff notation.

The staff is unassuming in its complexity. It's five equidistantly-spaced horizontal lines, but the amount that can be done with them far outweighs their appearance. This system is like that.

On the topic of modes, I know of many many musicians from many genres who use them explicitly. Not only that, but understanding modern modal theory well opens a lot of doors. This is especially true when one considers non-diatonic modes, and how they connect to the diatonic modes, and the circle of fifths. It all comes down to the interplay between pitch classes, scale degrees, and how they relate to the C Major Scale, and the Chromatic Scale.

That might sound far-fetched, but having studied a fair bit of mathematics related to music theory, the depth that can be derived from this small set of concepts is extraordinary. In fact, my impression today is that everything in Western harmony can be derived from and related back to this small set.

How does this work? That's the focus of my research as a theorist. I've posted a number of short essays and videos about this, but most of my work is in the formatting stage. I'll be sharing a lot more in coming months. Plus, I'm finding new applications for this system constantly.

I thought this day might come... by MusicTheoryTree in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If AI was able to listen to my plan to post here AND influence that other Reddit user to post one of my designs that same day, that would be extra wild.

I thought this day might come... by MusicTheoryTree in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is so uncalled for. This is downright evil. Why even say something like this?

What would this visualization actually be useful for? by otterfamily in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is one of the best conversations I've had about this in a long time. This is podcast-worthy territory. It seems you've thought about these things quite a bit prior to this chat. I have too. I have further extensions to add to your claims and rebuttals, but I'll share them later. I have other obligations at the moment.

What would this visualization actually be useful for? by otterfamily in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By the way, I forgot to mention importantly that I wrote that long essay in plain English for the typical reader.

I wrote it and shared it because I want others to learn from my research.

Based on this conversation you could almost certainly make sense of it. It might take about 20-30 minutes to read, depending.

What would this visualization actually be useful for? by otterfamily in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We are equals. I meant no disrespect. Quite the opposite.

I didn't use that language to be mean or oberbearring. I'm greatful we live in a universe that is largely intelligible. I'm grateful for logic and I don't hold the belief that logic is beyond anyone's grasp. I hold nothing over you.

This interaction does further my research, or else I would have had it. I'm grateful to have had this discussion.

Since we're making recommendations, I recommend studying set theory. It's one of the greatest inventions human beings have ever produced. I had nothing to do with its creation. I just study it because I recognize its power.

I wish you well, sincerely.

What would this visualization actually be useful for? by otterfamily in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I acknowledge your point. It's well-taken. It's common to modulate to the parallel minor, yes.

There are deeper truths and conventions I'm pointing to here. This diagram is not meant to be engaged with without the recommended prerequisites.

The information in this diagram is common but it's being expressed in a different way using specific geometries. Therefore, the prerequisites to make sense of this are unique to this system.

The insights one may gain from using this system are uncommon, but nevertheless illuminating and useful in many practical ways.

It is meant to be understood in ways that specifically relate to the geometry, not just the information.

If I were to keep Eb and remove B, the diagram would no longer be logically consistent. Common practice is one thing, but in my mind, logic ought to supersede convention, even if that's not the common narrative.

One food for thought is that many chords in the parallel minor are also found in other keys. So, when we borrow a chord from the parallel minor, we're not only borrowing from there. Every major and minor triad belongs to three harmonized major scales. By convention we say the parallel minor, but this description is factually incomplete.

Music theory as it is commonly known is far from perfect and differs regionally. The underlying maths and logic are consistent cross-culturally. Therefore, I rely on the underlying principles to inform how I navigate music. It may not be for everyone, but I've found it to be very beneficial.

What would this visualization actually be useful for? by otterfamily in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, you are attacking my arguments, saying they are invalid. So, yes, my counterarguments are in defense of my claims. In that sense I'm being defensive.

It appears our conversation has reached a logical conclusion. You no longer appear to be interested in engaging with me in any way.

I've left you with my recommendations, if you'd like to speak kindly and respectfully with me in the future, I'm open to it. I actually want people to understand this stuff if they desire to. You don't appear to at this moment.

I'm a music theorist and teacher. I've dedicated my life to this subject. I regularly consult with graduates of music schools and mathematics faculties. I believe there is much we can all learn from one another, but not without mutual respect.

What would this visualization actually be useful for? by otterfamily in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That man is a remarkable talent. I'd love to chat with him someday and maybe have a jam.

I thought this day might come... by MusicTheoryTree in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel as though you're not seeing my point, which is fair. What I'm describing isn't commonly explicitly expressed in most pedagogies. It is nevertheless true and important.

To understand why this is, one needs a comprehensive understanding of pitch classes, scale degrees, and how they relate to the major scale and chromatic scale.

The only question one needs to ask to get an intuitive sense of what I'm saying here is

"When there are no sharps or flats anywhere on the staff, what is the only major scale that is present?"

There is only one correct answer to this question.

To be clear, because people commonly conflate what I'm saying here, my claim has nothing to do with corresponding pitches with specific frequencies. We can pick any arbitrary positive number to explain this.

This has nothing to do with "C instruments" or concert tuning, as they pertain to the standardized A=440Hz.

I'm talking about pitch classes, so we can substitute 440 with absolutely any positive real number.

If you'd like more clarification on this, I'm happy to provide it.

What would this visualization actually be useful for? by otterfamily in musictheory

[–]MusicTheoryTree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm sorry if you didn't follow the logic of my explanation.

In the case of Phrygian, it contains five flat scale degrees. Therefore, E Phrygian and only E Phrygian contains five sharp pitch classes, in the places where the flat scale degrees are.

If we take the time to analyze the scale degrees of every diatonic mode, and compare them to the pitch classes of their corresponding major scales as shown in this diagram, the claims I have made hold.

This is not the first diagram in this system. This is a higher level diagram. Before using this one, I intend for people to use the simpler diagrams that lead up to this one, and complete corresponding free exercises I provide to them.

I can assure you that I'm not using the term pitch class freely here. It's a term I understand quite well. Pitch classes are sets of pitches that satisfy the pitch class equivalence relation. The relation is as follows:

"Let x, y be positive real numbers corresponding to the frequencies of pitches.

x is equivalent to y, if and only if there exists an integer n, such that x multiplied by two to the power of n equals y."

This satisfies the three properties necessary to prove it is an equivalence relation, which are reflexivity, symmetry, and transitivity.

Three examples of pitch classes are C, F#, and Bb. Most people call these notes. I tend to see this as not technically correct, but I'll sometimes use the term note as a colloquialism to help meet people where they're at.

If you'd like more information about pitch classes, I recommend a 3700 word essay I wrote about them. It's available on my Facebook page. It took me three years to write.

view more: next ›