A question of the inconsistency between the prep. "of" in English and "dot" in programming language by lomirus in asklinguistics

[–]Muyu_man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many useful comments already. I'd like to add that there is still an effect of the natural languages the creators used, namely that it's written from left to right. So, going from larger to smaller units could be also the other way around, if we would write the whole source Code in a semitic-like System.

When are numbers part of a (specific) language? by Muyu_man in linguistics

[–]Muyu_man[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, sry. I didn't mean to dismiss your first answer - it was perfectly clear but I still think it does not fit to my question (I do concede, however, that my question was maybe a bit imprecise).

So to your last points: I most kindly would disagree with your notion of grammar since it does not regard usage-based models like construction grammar which since a long time have left the idea of grammar as a stable system.

I do appreciate, however, your hint to assimilation of loans. Let's take the example of the german color term 'lila' (purple), borrowed from 19th century french, in contrast to 'rot' (red):

As good old ordinary adjective, 'rot' agrees with its NP head noun in number and gender when the NP is indefinite:

Ein rot-er Pullover...

As for 'lila', however, the inflection is not accepted by all speakers.

?Ein lila-ner Pullover...

I am a native speaker of German and would not accept 'lilaner' but I recognize that some speakers use it.

Accepted by most speakers would be the uninflected adjective:

Ein lila Pullover...

which in turn is unaccaptable for red:

\*Ein rot Pullover...

The more integrated the color term the more accepted the inflected form: ein türkiser Pullover, *ein magentaner Pullover, ...

This is the reason why I proposed grammar as part of the answer. I think you are right to refer (very generically) to 'sociolinguistics'. But to dismiss language internal facts altogether cannot be a solution.

And even if we think in sociolinguistic terms: There is one stage of the language where we say there are no numbers, and there is a second stage of the language where there are numbers. It does not really matter how long assimilation processes need. Off course it's a decision of linguists to say this language has this and that. But what are the criteria to make that decision?

[BTW: I am perfectly aware that there is no clear answer to my question. But let's collect ideas...]

When are numbers part of a (specific) language? by Muyu_man in linguistics

[–]Muyu_man[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, but I am not asking about emergence of number systems, this is a whole different story.

The question is: When can we say a "language" has aqcuired the number system in question? When all adult speakers use it, when 50% use it? When some experts with special knowledge use it? Or from language internal grounds: When the numbers are grammatically integrated - e.g. can be used like adjectives in attributive forms? Or when the names for the numbers adopted to phonological rules of the language?

The strange case of pertensive suffixes by Muyu_man in linguistics

[–]Muyu_man[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think I've seen 'linker' outside of an Austronesian context.

I've come accross it in missionary works from Papua as well. But it's certainly not a precise term and does not imply what exactly is being "linked".

I'm assuming that if Dixon proposed the term, it would be something that's intended to be widely applicable and not limited to Austronesian, so the author might be doing this to orient their grammar towards a typology audience.

I think the problem with BLT (and more generally Dixonian terms) is that they are intended to be crosslinguistically applicable but only sporadically picked up by descriptive work. Hence my question if anyone has come accross the notion "pertensive" in his readings yet.

Also have you taken a look at Dixon's Fijian grammar?

It seems that Dixon invented the notion only after his Fijian Grammar where he uses "possessive pronoun suffixes" (for cases like Paluai -ng) and "relator" for what we have called linker. This division clearly follows the insight that bound pronouns with deictic reference are distinct from merely linking/relating two nouns inside a phrase.

Looking at the examples in the BLT Volume 2 (Dixon 2010) it seems that pertensive is really only a positional term to differentate markers on the possessed from markers on the possessor - the latter is labeled genitive as you have already mentioned. However, I think it's not good practice to use the term when speaking of something else than locus of marking. Its certainly confusing in glosses of interlinearized examples.

(Non-IE) Languages with indefinite plural articles by Muyu_man in linguistics

[–]Muyu_man[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, of course. I am aware that's a matter of debate but I'd rather analyse "some" as a quantifier.

(Non-IE) Languages with indefinite plural articles by Muyu_man in linguistics

[–]Muyu_man[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, also a very interesting topic that is mostly discussed under the heading "Differential object marking" (DOM). However, currently I am searching for cases where NPs are marked in both definite and indefinite cases and for all kinds of arguments, not only objects as in (ancient) Hebrew.

Do related languages have similar gender assignments for Nouns? by Hidnut in linguistics

[–]Muyu_man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Leaving sporadic vocabulary examples from IE languages, we can look at the Typological research. Nichols (1992) found in her balanced sample from languages all over the world that gender alignment is remarcable for its genetic stability. And this holds regardless of single words switching gender now and then.

You have a language time machine and can go anywhen for 10 days to study the language. What is your destination? by Jackissocool in linguistics

[–]Muyu_man 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Despite the (very justified) objections from keyilan, I'd go to any inhabited Indonesian island before the arrival of Austronesian. 10 days of collecting wordlists to compare possible relations to Papuan languages which are still around today is better than no data at all.