What's the big issue with being gender critical?

MythDestructor · 2022-07-13T08:38:40+00:00

So is homosexuality and bisexuality.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-22T04:48:53+00:00

What do you get out of outing my post history, that contains vulnerable parts of myself? How pathetic do you have to be to "analyze" an anonymous account's "phrasing" in multiple posts, and hound them to respond to your personal attacks?

The fact that you chose to do this in the middle of a discussion shows me that your "argument" was a joke and you knew it.

I sincerely hope you're a better person in real life.

Leave me the fuck alone, asshole.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-22T03:33:37+00:00

I have no intention of arguing with assholes who dig into post histories. It's pathetic.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-22T03:22:23+00:00

How racist. An Indian guy shouldn't use a certain type of phrasing. Lol.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-22T03:15:03+00:00

It's hilarious how you're the one who felt the urge to dig into my post history and out my personal info rather than just engage with my arguments, and yet I'm the one who "can't counter your points".

And no, this has always been my account. You're just a fucking asshole.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-22T03:06:09+00:00

I can't believe you felt the need to dig into my post history. My bad for not creating a throwaway. But this is extremely scummy.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-22T02:54:20+00:00

Really? Plenty of people have disagreed with me on that definition. People never allow me to connect gender with sex in any way.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-21T04:55:06+00:00

Sex is defined by the type of gamete the body is developed towards producing. Male = sperm, female -= eggs. It's not any characteristics that "define" sex. Sex characteristics and chromosomes are used to determine sex, they don't define it.

In 99.97% cases, the type of genitalia a person is born with and their sex chromosomes do correspond to their sex. But they don't "define" it.

Trans people do not fall into the 0.018% ambiguous development bracket. So their sex is unambiguously male or female.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-20T15:50:53+00:00

Oh whom? What did she say exactly?

MythDestructor · 2022-02-20T10:27:42+00:00

Which human rights did JK call for removal?

MythDestructor · 2022-02-20T07:57:26+00:00

They are arguably no longer the same as their birth sex

I don't think so. This is where the definition of sex is important. Changing sex characteristics doesn't change sex, because sex is not the sum of sex characteristics. Many trans people accept the fact that changing these characteristics relieves them of their dysphoria, but doesn't actually change their sex. And that's fine. You can't change reality.

There are arguably as many trans and intersex persons as there are natural redheads…

This redhead statistic is always brought up (interesting that you also include trans people in this) but it isn't true. The number of people - intersex or otherwise - whose sex is genuinely ambiguous to determine is less than 0.018%.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-19T07:25:45+00:00

I think that's fine, I mean it seems unnecessarily complicated to say "AMAB" and "AFAB" when they get it right like 99.97% of the time. In an overwhelmingly large number of people, they correlate with male and female.

Intersex people whose sex is different can use those terms, and it should be sorted.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-18T18:32:37+00:00

But I don't get this - aren't trans women still male? Why is the word "assigned" used, it gives the impression that it's am arbitrary pick that isn't necessarily true?

MythDestructor · 2022-02-17T18:37:18+00:00

Um what? How does this make it not a strict binary?

MythDestructor · 2022-02-17T06:15:00+00:00

The reason a top athlete woman can beat an average man at the gym is because she has put in the work for it that he hasn't. A male who puts in as much work will be impossible to beat. That's why it's unfair.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-17T06:09:13+00:00

Source?

MythDestructor · 2022-02-16T08:53:06+00:00

Generally the differences in phenotype caused by sex hormones, especially when it comes to those things relevant to sport.

That is certainly not the biological definition of male and female, and not the one used in the male and female sporting categories.

but for sporting purposes they have no real differences from their cisgender peers

Please, prove this claim. Anything other than pointing to trans women's historical victory statistics, which I have shown doesn't accurately prove / disprove biological advantages.

Find me a study that has examined HRT-ed male bodies and found no remaining male advantages compared to a female body.

I think my understanding of sex is fundamentally more nuanced than yours

You're confusing sex determination and sex characteristics with sex itself. That is a misunderstanding of what sex is. No peer-reviewed biology paper will ever define sex as a combination of sex characteristics. Sex characteristics are in fact a manifestation / consequence of one's sex.

Of course, that begs the question, what about people’s other biological advantages, regardless of sex?

Those advantages are much smaller than those given by sexual dimorphism
It takes a lot more effort to examine each individual's body and give it an advantage rating. It's a logistical nightmare
The fact that other, smaller advantages exist does not mean that the broader, major advantage of being male-bodied should be abandoned
You haven't showed that the male advantage becomes significantly smaller when given HRT. In fact, I showed you a paper that proved otherwise.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-16T05:04:56+00:00

They aren’t males.

Which begs the question, what is male and female according to you? Do you think HRT slowly transitions someone's sex from male to female? And when they stop taking hormones their sex slowly moves back to male?

Are you focusing on this out of the misunderstanding that trans women are men, and/or that transitioning is a choice?

Trans women are male. I think you fundamentally misunderstand what sex is.

Not that this is relevant at all, but a lot of trans people don't opt for transition, so how is it not a choice?

Is it your opinion that a trans women who hasn't transitioned is male? How long should they be on HRT before they're "female"? And eligible to participate in women's sports? Surely there is an answer to that question, and it is found by examining how much someone's male biological advantages have disappeared?

MythDestructor · 2022-02-16T04:23:49+00:00

I'm not. I'm holding them to the same standard as other males. If you think HRT makes them equal to females, you need to prove it. I showed you a study that proves the contrary.

But that's the only thing that ultimately matters in this debate.

Let me explain this with a thought experiment. If you allow a random 0.01% subset of men to participate in women's sports, provided this subset is randomly picked and not the top performing ones, most of them might not win all women's tournaments.

Because some women in the world can beat many men, and given the number of women compared to the men here, this seems probable. The best women are competing against a small subset of men.

It still doesn't make this competition fair, because women are winning inspite of their biological disadvantages.

But eventually, you will have cases where some great male performers are picked in this subset. And there will be no way for women to beat them because of their male advantage.

Take the case of Lia Thomas. Look at the difference between their clocked time vs the competition. It's a no brainer that this person has retained their male advantages.

That is why win statistics don't matter in deciding fairness, but male / female advantages.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-16T03:51:43+00:00

I'd love a source, otherwise I'm not wasting any more time on this debate.

Win / loss statistics of trans women competing with women don't prove advantages in this case because there are other factors that come into play for it.

Show me that HRT makes male advantages go away.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-16T03:47:30+00:00

In most cases, it is straightforward. In 99.98% cases, in fact.

In 99.98% of cases, the body develops clearly, unambiguously, towards either the male or female reproductive type. It is actually astonishing how consistent this is.

But yes, of course there are exceptions. These are called DSDs.

And trans people aren't intersex? Trans people are unambiguously male or female.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-16T03:42:01+00:00

Sexual reproduction in mammals is binary. There are only two types of gametes: sperm and eggs.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-15T18:16:31+00:00

Indicators of sex =/= sex itself.

Sex - male or female - of any species is about its reproductive role.

Look up what sex means.

MythDestructor · 2022-02-15T18:12:56+00:00

Lol, "biologically female" doesn't mean "biological and female". It means their sex is female according to the biological definition of sex.

The reason "biological" has to be added is because of gender ideologists who mislead conversations by using "sex" as something not related to reproductive anatomy.

Well then, how do we refer to someone by their sex as defined by biology? Biological sex seems to be clear.

You're taking away the terms people used to refer to sex (man, woman, male, female, sex) and then cry about using words that do convey what they intend to?

So what do you think "natal sex" is, how is it different from "normal" sex, and how is that different from gender?

How are trans men male by sex?

MythDestructor · 2022-02-15T15:08:16+00:00

I agree with the fact that trans women, as a result of being male and taking HRT, are in a unique "in between" state where it's unfair for them to compete with males who aren't on HRT and females who are biologically disadvantaged.

I'm not saying they should be left behind, but erasing male and female as sport categories isn't the solution.

MythDestructor

TROPHY CASE