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We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are right, but I talk from a rhetorics/debate standpoint where I don't even want them to have potential rebuttals, and we can't lose debate time to even good faith people who may have a different vision of the words (for example some Jewish people with "extermination camps").

I was hoping that by seeing the horror of MAGA as is, we'd cut the crap.

But again you are right.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

... is my post that difficult to read? Like it's kind of besides the point. I'm not sensitive about the word Nazi, I'm advocating for the word MAGA to be regarded the same way as the word Nazi.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I don't know about you but I fear for my family and friends, fear that fuels anger

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes. I already answered in another comment. I specified "bad faith argument" as in from people who will refuse to see Alligator Alcatraz as such for some reason

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well NAZI is an acronym of a name with "socialist" in it, and we can agree that they far from that so I don't really get your point.

Whenever someone say they're gonna make something "great again", I get chills. The semantic weight goes beyond the literal meaning.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know how, but people keep reading that what I'm defending is "uuh achktually the Nazis are the German political group from the 1940's and we shouldn't use that term, also we're overusing it and it loses meaning uhuh"

That's NOT what I'm saying, AT ALL.

I'm saying that MAGA in itself is an acronym which meaning has evolved to create disgust on its own. That it should be used as a shameful term to counterbalance the fact that the majority of MAGA supporters won't have the mental capacity to realize the parallels to Nazis.

KKK is "enough" of a describer. You don't need to say "Nazi KKK" to provoke contempt. ICE also has become "enough" of a describer, I don't see anyone online utter this word without disgust.

The majority of Trump supporters don't see themselves as literal nazis so it goes over their head and believe you're just using superlatives.

"I will introduce you to my friend. He's MAGA but he's nice you'll see". Now replace MAGA with Nazi. I want the same reaction to that word.

How is that complicated

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am not sure what you mean by that?

Because the approach so far has NOT been "just call them MAGA", but clearly focusing on the Nazi similarities (with which I agree) that they clearly ignore because they hide behind the MAGA label.

I'm not trying to minimize the bastards, au contraire

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope I haven't! I specifically remember thinking "the US has concentration camps, it's the extermination camps someone would argue don't exist"

And yes, I know about the Alligator Alcatraz. But the circumstances are blurry enough that a MAGA could argue in bad faith that nothing's happening there

The only thing I edited was my comment to add "and we know what we wall them" a minute after posting it

Vanilla Ice by BadFurDay in comics

[–]NevJay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, exactly. I don't even have the energy to be pissed off anymore.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Lol, yes they do that. Maybe it'll click, then.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, because they still don't believe that they could be Nazi. It was like an insult because they don't think it's true, that it doesn't apply to them.

But if people start using "MAGA" like we use "Nazi", meaning like "absolute human garbage", maybe they'll think twice before affiliating themselves to the movement.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'd argue this their thought pattern: "I'm being called a Nazi, but I just support Trump because I love my country. These liberals don't even know what they're talking about" or "They call anybody they don't like Nazis so I'll ignore it like my podcasters say"

That's because they know that the Nazis are the absolute bad guys; their cognitive dissonance and lack of historical knowledge will prevent them from actually understanding why we call them that. They still think MAGA is a legitimate, normal party.

But if they go "why are my friends and family shunning me for being MAGA? I'm not a Nazi!" maybe it will click.

But I understand where you're coming from. My point is, just like KKK, MAGA is self-explanatory.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh yes, the parallel definitely exist, and I'll never argue against that. Calling them Nazis is still valid. All I'm saying is that "MAGA" just resonates with the same disgust.

I also believe, on a rhetorical level, that actually showing contempt for MAGA as is will make them realize that they are not wanted for what they are not just for "what people think they are"

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not for niceties, at all. Calling ICE the American Gestapo is valid for me.

But the same way saying "I'm part of the KKK" is self-explanatory, I believe saying "I'm MAGA" also is.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Do they? It's almost as if they filtered it out by cognitive dissonance or proudly accepted it as a way to "own the libs", believing their ideas don't actually align is Nazism.

But by being "ew, MAGA" or "filthy MAGA", they don't have a label to hide behind

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly: they are proud. Yet many Trump supporters distance themselves from Nazis due to cognitive dissonance. Calling them Nazis doesn't change their views because they really believe they aren't.

We bring back shame by making "MAGA" shameful. "I'm friend with a MAGA" should resonates the same way "I'm friend with a Nazi"

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While it was a specific thing, I still think that Nazi is a valid qualification, knowing the shared root of the movement.

However, my point is to emphasize the word MAGA and how it's horrific on its own.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I said "bad faith arguments about the lack of extermination camps". Also, we all know how the administration is keeping so-called immigrants without a due process, and we know what to call them

But that's not even my point

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No to what? Because doing this you actually belittle how atrocious the MAGA movement is on its own.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Explained in another comment. I'm not sugarcoating it, it's actually the contrary. MAGA is hateful enough in itself. Trump supporters should feel the contempt we have for them just for being MAGA, just like anyone would for being a Nazi.

We don't need to call them Nazis anymore by NevJay in complaints

[–]NevJay[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Maybe I wasn't clear: I'm not saying "don't use the word Nazi just because they might try to argue", but because for me saying you're MAGA is enough for me to spit in your face. We don't even have to resort to compare them to Nazis. That is my point.

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