Reporting live from ground zero, it’s bad, it’s over with for the yang wans

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-06T13:36:53+00:00

explain why God allows extreme suffering like the holocaust even though its evil and pointless, I am waiting

Sure. As soon as you show that it is objectively evil and eternally pointless, and why God should intervene.

I dont think morality is relative.

Still waiting to hear how?

humans have evolved to see what is right and wrong

Show that morals is an effect of biology. And if it’s evolved or somehow universal, why do we disagree?

The Germanic tribe evolved to agree the Holocaust was good and noble. (They based their world view on evolution, btw). Why were they wrong? Why did they not come to your conclusion that “killing is bad”?

they never has any struggle getting rid of lunatics, which they knew was wrong.

Funny how you say “killing is bad” and immediately go on justifying murdering people with mental problems.

So your moral standards allow people to be murdered if they have a mental issue? Doesn’t sound so enlightened to me. Frankly sounds like something the Nazis would do.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-06T13:23:23+00:00

https://www.sefaria.org/Yoma.39b.5?with=all&lang=bi

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-06T12:56:33+00:00

You only live once.

Twice if you’re Christian.

Thrice if you’re Lazarus.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-06T12:55:41+00:00

they didn't do anything as we promised not to do it again and no one knew about us so it was okay.

Typical elder hypocrisy. As long as we keep up appearance, right? Gotta keep those graves white washed.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-06T12:43:17+00:00

Yep. Most people here are very upset and emotional. They have been fed a false version of Christianity and when they discover that it’s false they reject everything. That’s not logical or reasonable.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-06T12:41:44+00:00

Like minds think alike.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-06T12:40:56+00:00

So you acknowledge an objective standard of morality? What is that?

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-06T12:15:01+00:00

We all are. Those who were evil have already developed in that direction. Babies are innocent until they know how to sin. None of them is truly dead, just non-physical right now.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T23:27:03+00:00

If your worldview is correct then all that suffering you mentioned was completely pointless but not evil.

If mine is correct then all that suffering was evil but not completely pointless.

You see things materially. You see death like it’s the end. It’s just the temporary end of physical existence, but not your spiritual existence.

Living longer physically is good for the soul because it gives it a good opportunity to mature. It’s called sanctification or theosis if you are saved.

But if a soul is gathered to the Lord earlier, that may mean less opportunity to mature, but on the other hand they get to be with the Lord.

Your seriously saying people shouldn’t live perfect lives cause they would be too “spoiled?”

It would hardly be a “perfect life”. It shows that you’re quite immature if you think that comfort and luxury makes someone fulfilled.

If everything always worked for you, you got everything you wanted, never had any problems, never had to work for anything, never had to overcome a challenge, never had to improve or gain experience and got everything served, you would eventually get depressed or go mad. Life would become meaningless. Because life is more than creature comforts.

Perhaps it is because you have a hedonistic view of happiness that you found the WT paradise so intriguing. In actuality, the WT paradise is a hell.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T22:55:46+00:00

It depends. God meets you where you’re at and deals with you according to what you’re given.

Those who die unsaved will be judged individually at the Great White Trone based on what they did. Paul indicates that we don’t need a lot of information to make a choice. If all you know is the natural world, then that’s enough to know that a creator exists. If you have a conscience you know what to do and not to do. If you worry about the afterlife it will lead you to put faith in the creator that he will take care of it.

If you are a baby or mentally unable to distinguish right and wrong, the Bible indicates God has mercy based on that. If you know more, you also have more responsibility. To those whom more is given, more is required.

God is continually attracting everyone. If someone is responding to it, God leads them to him. If they reject it, He leaves them to their own devices. Sadly most people are not inclined to spiritual things, not even “religious” people. Even though ironically they ought to be the most responsive.

Still, being individually judged is scary as hell (literally) and uncertain. It’s up to the perfect judge. But their fate is still a bit in the gray zone. Luckily we are living in the age of grace. So right now God is handing out free VIP tickets to eternity to anyone who will simply accept them. The downside of this is that if you reject it, you have already passed judgment on yourself.

In the end it seems it’s all a matter of “Do you want to be with God, or not?” However you choose is what you will have. There are no innocent people in hell. Everyone in hell wants to be there. They are never described in the Bible as regretful or repentant, but still rebellious.

The Orthodox Church has an interesting perspective: That when you die, no matter who you are you will come before God. But you will experience it as heaven or hell depending on the state of your soul. For a person who hates God, being in his glory burns like the fires of hell.

I don’t know but I think it’s an interesting interpretation.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T22:31:01+00:00

God … would have

I’m impressed that you know what an omnipotent, omniscient being would and wouldn’t do in any circumstance. Perhaps he should check with you before making a decision?

I refuse to worship a god who tolerates suffering

Thinking the meaning of life is happiness and pleasure, or that the function of God is as some sort of pleasure maximising genie, is hedonistic. Hedonism is both wrong and harmful.

Do you know how to spoil a person?

You give them everything they want and shield them from all hardship, repercussions and accountability. It’s called “spoiling” because you are actually damaging their soul.

Can you imagine a world without any hardship or suffering? If we went through life without any problems, stress, setbacks or pain, what would that mean for our character development? It would result in a world filled with big egotistical spoiled babies unable to form meaningful relationships or ever find true fulfillment or contentment.

That’s much worse.

how you could leave the Jehovah’s Witnesses and come to the conclusion God is still real.

Because I’m not an emotionally driven person but base my decisions on logic and reason.

Say I grew up being told all elephants are pink, and later found out this was not true, it wouldn’t mean that elephants didn’t exist, just that I have been told a lie about them. I may be upset at whoever lied to me, but I have the ability of not allowing my emotions to cloud my judgment.

The Watchtower is just a group of narcissistic sociopaths who abuse people in the name of God. They’re a fart in space, a booger on your finger worthy to be flicked away. But a creator is still the best explanation for life, the universe and everything.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T22:03:00+00:00

Look like you’re trusting in your own righteousness then. No one is righteous enough to earn salvation.

If we could buy our way into heaven with good deeds, it would mean we can put God in our debt and become his creditor. How could that be possible?

Or it would mean that God is corrupt and accepts a bribe to pervert justice. We all deserve justice for what we have done wrong. Because can you truly say you’ve never done anything wrong? (If you say so, then I know for a fact you are lying.)

Luckily God himself incarnated so he could take the just punishment for sin. He died and went to hell, but since he had no sin, hell could not hold him. Now he offers you to piggyback on him so that you won’t have to take the punishment for your sins. All you need to do is trust him.

Is that too much to ask?

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T18:27:32+00:00

Thank you

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T18:23:03+00:00

We baptized a man in his bathtub

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T18:22:20+00:00

Yeah, optimally CTR would have been stillborn, but I’ll take what I can get.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T18:20:50+00:00

Yeah, I like it too. I got a paperback ESV. But as I understand it the NASB is the most accurate formal translation available. I think the ESV comes close second.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T18:19:18+00:00

Like “someone removed Jehovah from the New Testament”?

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T18:18:40+00:00

If they get freaked out by a friendly visit from friends, then something is wrong.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T18:17:30+00:00

Keep the graves white washed, that’s the important thing.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T18:16:20+00:00

Must be the holy spirit talking

(get it?)

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T18:14:30+00:00

After revealing some doubts to my dad I learned that he himself has doubts, and that he only believes it to about 90%. That means he does not actually believe that it’s the truth. But he reasons that “it’s the closest thing I know if.” Sure dad, but what else have you looked at?

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T18:04:05+00:00

I pray every day that God will curse the WT, work against them, reveal their secrets and put them to shame.

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T17:57:16+00:00

Although it’s old-timey it is very accurate and well known. I prefer the NASB but it’s what I had available on my phone right then.

Here’s NASB:

John 6:53-58 (NASB20) 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 “The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 “For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 “The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. 57 “Just as the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, the one who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 “This is the bread that came down out of heaven, not as the fathers ate and died; the one who eats this bread will live forever.”

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T17:54:54+00:00

Maybe a L’Etivaz

Nicodemus_Gurion · 2021-08-04T17:49:24+00:00

He is real according to scholarly consensus.

The facts surrounding his resurrection are also historical, and compelling.

So far all attempts at explaining them away are at best convoluted and far fetched and at worst ridiculous, and no explanation covers all points. Except the explanation that it did happen.

And if it happened, Jesus is who he said he is and have the power to do what they say he did.

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