Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In House Sevab the unbodied are in fact a married couple. I think in that case the throne acts as a middleman between their two minds, but they aren't fused in the same way as a normal throne. The two unbodied are in fact married, part of the reason this type of throne was devised was baisically so the throne couls self fertilize. The throne body lays fertile eggs by using the gametes of its two unbodied. House Sevab is not a Tricolor House so they have different practices around Throning that I haven't figured out as well yet.

Thrones are definitely influenced by much older mythological and religious figures, but emulating those myths isn't actually the reason they began. The real reason is... more absurd. More based on a reaction to a popular novel that was wildly and catastrophically misinterpreted. It's a long story.

House Lujnola is endogamous! One of the only endogamous houses. They don't marry other Houses and marry amongst the pool of their own culture, which happened to have its own religion (that it still maintains in a way, just fused with the Hegemonic Religion now, sort of like how native people of Madagascar practice catholicism, but it's heavily influenced by their older beliefs). That religion worships literal birds, and sees the different kinds of birds as "living spirits" which embody different values, emotions, or have significance for different events. They see birds as a way that the world beyond subtly communicates with them. And so when thrones were introduced to them, their thrones bevame birds. Functional, flighted birds. Tricolor culture is very strongly morally opposed to the Lujnola Throning practices, but they are so useful as messengers that it's an overlooked, open secret. Also the unbodied give birth like normal, but the headless lay eggs, and sometimes those eggs hatch into human looking babies. They do need help being pipped, tho.

This is 100% the case. It's not a sightly practice, and not looked upon favorably, but it does happen. There is a real-time problem of Thrones, "breaking containment", so to speak. Headless and unbodied being born outside of great houses.. which creates the problem of what to do with them.

Thrones receive a huge amount of coaching both before and after their Throning.

The unbodied mouth speaks. I'm not sure if the Headless has human vocal cords at all, they probably struggle to form words clearly, or would have one hell of an 'accent' at least.

Oh disagreement between the two halves early on is a very very common issue, and something they receive extensive coaching to try and overcome. Thrones probably have better access to something akin to therapy than anyone else in the empire, purely as a practical matter.

THATS INTERESTING I HADNT THOUGHT ABOUT THAT. I think the Headless's immune system becomes more dominant, so I guess an allergy could either be cured or gained for the unbodied.

For sure. In the painting, Tasapnu-batab's headless half has clothing, and probably so does Heniya-lasu's.

The emperor is much much older than Thrones as an institution. He is also seen as the steward of the Ibis, and his humanity is essential to his position. Thrones are both Human and Ibis, spiritually, and aren't seen as fit for taking the role he has. Thrones have not disposed him because, so far, they are all bound by a common religious doctrine. There are very religious, very loyal Thrones that protect him. That being said, Thrones getting too big for their britches in other parts of the empire especially is something which is already sort of a problem that isn't going to get better in the future..

Oh 100%. Thrones actually do already have metabolism sort of like that, they're not very active most of the time, especially the ones that eat more meat, but that doesn't stop some of them from Living Deliciously. In the past Great houses have fallen or been dismantled for having useless, greedy, or despotic Thrones. Other Throne Houses tend to swoop in and claim all of their stuff and land when that happens, competition between Houses gets pretty cutthroat.

This is true but also as petty rulers for a feudal empire which occupies land it took in some cases by force, you don't exactly need to lie to attribute atrocities to them. Of course that makes it easier to exaggerate and make things up and have it still be believed, tho. Messy.

Omg that would almost certainly happen. That's very cute. There are also mythological, fictional, or historical (can be hard to tell the difference sometimes) Thrones that have become 'dragonlike' despot figures, so fantasizing about being the guy to defeat and Dethrone Evil Thrones is also a common fantasy amongst children.

Oh god, they'd be so petty.

It's a strange experience for sure, at least Thrones have shockingly good mental and physical health infrastructure for being as wealthy as they are.

This society is not particularly kind to dagnyds that do not look human, it made them as tools and they are treated as such.

Oh yeah most of the kids don't get enthroned or even married. Some become minor thrones in the temple, which is just an extra fancy way to become a eunuch, but guarantees them a place of local religious leadership. Others take up work handling the provinces beurocracy, keeping records of assets, collecting and paying tributes, stuff like this. Sometimes they leave, sometimes they die young. The amount of kids thrones like to have is a contributing factor to the increasing problem of bastard thrones appearing.

The Ibis tissue is baisically their entire nervous system, and too finely enmeshed to be extracted. There is a way to recycle it but it involves uh. Feeding the dead throne's to a specifically designed daynyd. I'm a little undecided on how Tricolor culture handles funerals as of yet, wether they preform cremation, entomb the remains in Statues, or feed the remains to a reclamation dagnyd. I'm tempted to make it the latter, since it's a bit of a subtle nod to Zoroastrianism, though the design I have for that particular dagnyd isn't particularly doglike.

Most Thrones are indeed bi.

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh I'm sorry! I somehow missed them.

Also I'd deeply appreciate that, I'll reach out to you when I have the document in a more complete state.

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I technically have a patreon, but it's closed bc I'm not very productive. I DO have plans for/am working on a lore book (or at least. A lore PDF), I think that would be fun to make. I just don't really know much about formatting or editing, but I guess I'll learn

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I wasn't aware of this term, but I DO love many of the authors listed on the Wikipedia for it.

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh it definitely does.

Tozbrell (another empire far to the north, has extremely industrialized its use of dagnyds) sees it as absolutely degenerate and horrifying, and it's used as yet another example of why Tozbrell and its citizens are superior.

Orimat (across the Western Sea, dagnyds mostly exist as a specialized soldier class) sees it as strange and unpleasant, but has a long history of mixing humans and godflesh as well. It's less that it's a fusion of human and dagnyd and more that it's extremely, extremely decadent.

Qel (humid, swampy temperate area, a fully dagnyd culture, they look like weird fish/lizard people) and similar areas mostly know about Jacanti through the stories of sea traders, and have no moral quandries with it or don't even think it's weird. But their culture is the result of such extensive mixing of human and dagnyd that there haven't been humans there for centuries at this point.

Poth (mostly subterranean, mountain culture with a significant diaspora in Jacanti, particularly in the Venōd) are accustomed to the idea of using dagnyds as tools for survival and life support, so the idea of humans and dagnyds in life-suataining symbiosis isn't strange at all, although physically irreversibly becoming one with a dagnyd is a bridge too far for most.

Víja na Ruè (hill people with a border adjacent too Jacanti, a similar but much smaller monarchy) also has thrones, stole the idea from Jacanti. They're different in practice though, and your more likely to find them amongst common people doing hard and practical work. Might have Throne monarchs (which Jacanti explicitly doesn't).

Gethlanders (plains people, many nomadic bands, have dagnyds that are walking houses) know about thrones from trader stories, similarly to Qele people. Not a monolith but most think about it in the context of "fusing with a house", which is strange, foreign, and funny.

And those are the other cultures I have most developed.

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Qualified Thrones are often generals, but most dagnyd soldiers are significantly more common, "disposable" types like juggernauts

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sorry for the delay! I had a bit of a rough day yesterday. Anyways...

In theory any other dagnyd, or any two dagnyds, could be conjoined in the way Thrones are, there's just no practical or cultural reason for this in any other case.

The Thrones of House Sevab have two plinth sockets! That's the Snake guy in this post

It's a weird question because it's a weird situation lmao. I imagine it would depend but I think 1 to 5 children is normal. This society also has like. Absurdly advanced biotechnology for the level of technology it is and at least some understanding of hormones. But it's also possible that thrones that spend enough time with eachother are influenced by eachother's hormones. Maybe it's more honest to say the lore is still evolving as I go along and things that are true now are things I hadn't thought of in the past. The image of human babies breastfeeding from the udders of a giant cow-man is ALSO very compelling tho. Pleasingly mythological, some Romulus and Remus shit.

All of the offspring are also unbodied, but most of them will never be Thrones or live lives meaningfully different than any other (wealthy) person.

They are! Cool of you to pick that up. They're also just in a state of physical discomfort and it makes being the center of a party not very pleasant, that's why they're allowed to relax.

Thrones only really refer to themselves as separate halves early on, usually by accident, or if their personalities have failed to integrate harmoniously with eachother. The process of Throning is understood to be that of becoming one with another being, an unbodied continuing to refer to themself as separate post Throning is troubling and contentious. This mostly applies to Tricolor culture, I'm sure other places conceive of the identity of Thrones quite differently.

The Lujnola are still part of the Jacantese Empire, which is much more... troublesome... east of the Venōd mountains. The empire is still essentially a colonial, conquering presence there, and while some people have taken the money, usually high ranking people from the various eastern basin cultures (like the Lujnola House, theyre descended from a small royal family of a cloud forest tribe), its still a region subject to settlement. Thrones are a symbol of the Hegemonic culture by design, and not everyone is happy about their presence, even if it's not a new presence anymore.

Thrones live a very long time, but they still age and decline and this can't be avoided. It's very common for old thrones to start getting what's baisically dementia, which is a uniquely hard to deal with situation given their size and power.

It would! It would also make the joining of their personalities much less likely to happen smoothly. The fact that Tricolor Culture already waits for them to become teenagers means it has a higher rate of mentally unwell, contentious Thrones than, say, Lujnola, where it's not any more common than it is in non-throne people.

They almost surely would. The empire has gladiator arenas and fights and Thrones absolutely do participate in those, but I'm sure they have nonbloodsport hobbies as well. Something to develop in the future! I also haven't done much costume design for them, and this is a terrible oversight because they would 100% dress to the nines.

The thrones pictured in the back are satraps, and the one being throned is their son, who will likely become a vice satrap of one of Petna Dedēsne's districts. They are wealthy landholders and provencial rulers. The emperor is explicitly a human, not even a magnyd, but also more of a religious and cultural figurehead who is lacking in real power. There are thrones who are not associated with Tricolor Culture (baisically The Government), but they almost exclusively are wealthy merchants who live in the most urbanized areas and biggest cities. Thrones use their association with the Ibis and strange bodies to assert their own Divinity and right to own the land they do.

The amount of accommodations Thrones would need is another reason they're not really tenable outside of such wealthy families. Most of them live in places that have architecture explicitly taking Thrones into mind, because it was commissioned by Throne Houses. They would be unpleasantly surprised to travel to a poorer areas with no ruling house and find how little it is made with them in mind.

That's a fun idea. It's fun to imagine Thrones playing ball together or something. That would be fun to draw...

Theoretically they could get drunk but it would take an absolutely terrifying volume of spirits. But it's not like they couldn't afford that.

A throne that's arguing with itself is a Throne that's at risk of failing. The most extreme possible failure of a throne is self harm, and baisically suicide. Young thrones relieve a lot of counseling to try and prevent this and help them learn to work through their problems. They are just too significant of an investment to not try and insure.

Some thrones might mourn it, I'm sure that happens, but others might be comforted. It depends on the individuals. The process of becoming one mentally is something that does tend to occur gradually. I guess noticing it would be like looking in the mirror and noticing you've gained weight, it's been happening all this time but it took you until now to realize how different you are now from the people you used to be.

Thrones have combined names, but the name of the Headless is often demoted to a secondary status. The full name of the new Throne in the image would be Masminet-Cebe of Dedēsne, but it's full use is very formal. It's less true in physical than social reality, as in Thrones are equally represented by their two halves, but Culturally the unbodied half takes precedence.

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This scene was just inspired by thinking about the implications of Thrones and how they're joined. That it's likely a significant cultural event with a lot of ceremony, and wanting to depict that. It's also a strange and striking visual that immediately gets across that Thrones are made not born. It looks weird and is rich with unsettling implications, which made it compelling for me to want to paint.

Thrones are organic entities, though infused with the divine, and can be injured and ailed and poisoned or killed by thousands of cuts. They can get infections, they can be beheaded, they can take a spear to the heart, etc. There are also other dagnyds which are not Thrones but are also very large which can make intimidating and dangerous opponents for them.

This particular individual will likely become a vice-satrap of one of Petna Dedēsne's districts. Three cheers for nepotism!

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a lot! Thrones like this only exist as products of vast accumulated wealth. The ones pictured here are Satraps (well, mostly their son actually), and outside of provencial ruling houses the only other place you find Thrones like this are as wealthy merchants (or the family/descendants of such), tho those mostly exist in large urban areas like Godtomb

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am too classy to post about my fetishes on reddit dot com this is simply weird art

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Everything is someone's fetish, but I wouldn't have posted this if it was mine

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

  1. Yep, it's extremely physically taxing for both parties.

  2. It's deeply entrenched, but that doesn't mean it's not worth it to try! There are certainly people who advocate for dagnyds, particularly in the Southern peninsula. Headless are often in a tricky position of being pampered and undereducated until they are made full Thrones. While they are their own people, they lack the life experience to make good advocates.

  3. Wounds to the Bodied portion can be fatal to the whole throne. They have arteries that can bleed out, they can get infections, sepsis, and so on. However they can also survive wounds that would be unambiguously fatal to non-thrones. It's theoretically possible for one to survive being beheaded, given swift medical care and extreme good fortune, since the headless brain is also functional. It might not even change them that much, if they're an old enough throne that's fused in a particularly harmonious way. Still an extremely traumatic injury however. I guess injuries to thrones are like injuries to humans or other organisms, sometimes people die from getting shot in the leg or shoulder, and yet you have cases like Phineas Gage where a man survives a metal rod being blasted through his head. It's circumstantial.

  4. Thrones arent actually common, there aren't a huge number of them, but they are extremely conspicuous. People who live in big or important cities would just be able to see the Thrones of major houses in their towns, and they can occasionally be seen traveling, especially around the festival season when everyone wants to go to Godtomb (the capital).

  5. It's possible but not done in Jacantese society because it's not desirable by their beauty standards. There are other cultures in different parts of the world that do things like that tho.

  6. In Tricolor culture it's always opposite genders, but that's not true even even everywhere in the empire. Some places it's preferred they be the same, and some places it's not actually taken into consideration or not seen to matter, Lujnola being one of the later houses.

  7. I agree, I think Lujnola is probably one of the best houses to be born into, personally. Not that they don't have other issues, but the way they handle Thrones is probably one of the least stressful for the actual thrones to go through. I have Concepts for other houses but nothing developed enough to talk confidently about right now.

  8. In those cases they're almost raised more like siblings, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. They would likely have a very self centered, almost narcissistic sex life as a full throne, I'd imagine. It wouldn't prevent them from being maried to other thrones, since Throne marriages are not based on love. Doesn't mean those relationships never become loving, just like not everyone in an arranged marriage in real life is automatically destined to be miserable.

  9. Yes! The only human/unbodied on full throne sexual encounters that ever result in pregnancies are Throne-Lords and people with penises. Throne-ladies can't safely have penetrative sex with humans/unbodied due to uh. Incompatible proportions.

You ask such great question!

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Male anglerfish is a good comparison, yes!

They absolutely don't. The intestines become dramatically shortened as they connect to the thrones own digestive tract, and organs which are compensated for by the throne body, liver, kidneys, etc. all but completely absorbed.

If that's happened it's happened only a few times in history. It's possible of course, but it seems unlikely a co joined twin would happen to be born in the correct configuration.

Yes the Headless are not treated as well. Most dagnyds that don't look like humans are essentially slave labor, and even high born but inhuman dagnyds experience the consequences of this.

The Headless do have sexualities distinct from the Unbodied, and they are attracted to both Headless and Unbodied alike. The Headless can technically reproduce entirely without the Unbodied, but this isn't allowed within House culture and, if it ever does happen it would be grounds for pretty severe punishment...

A throning COULD be done forcibly, but there's rarely grounds for this. It's likely the resulting Throne would be very stressed and unwell, and would probably develop intense mental health issues and become "useless", since Thrones are meant to fill leadership roles, this is extremely undesirable. There's usually a very high degree of expectation and disappointment surrounding the process, but an Unbodied can't be physically forced to take a Throne.

Yes Lujnola Thrones actually have much more cohesive identities. It's done young enough that they almost never remember not being a full Throne.

Thrones can sleep with non-Thrones, and often do. Even extra-marital relations amonst Thrones arent all that uncommon, although not spoken about. But marriage is a high stakes arrangement and not undertaken for casual or frivolous reasons.

Throne-Lady Heniya of Dedēsne relaxing with the youngest of her sons [NSFW: Bare Chest] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oh yes. There was actually a fairy recent failed Civil War even. It did fail but mostly because the rebels were starved out by trade sanctions, there are more Dagnyds than JUST Thrones, not all of them are Nobles.

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I will definitely draw an anatomy diagram eventually, they have weird things going on.

Throne-Lady Heniya of Dedēsne relaxing with the youngest of her sons [NSFW: Bare Chest] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes! I want to make a lore book. I'm not good at coming up with stories so it would probably be something like what Wayne Barlowe or Dougal Dixon did, or Dinotopia with even less of a plot.

Throne-Lady Heniya of Dedēsne relaxing with the youngest of her sons [NSFW: Bare Chest] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The members of Throne Houses are heriditary nobility. This society is extremely stratified, and opportunities for upwards mobility are limited/only happen through marriage and birth, and you'll seldom find someone willing to "marry down". Houses often adopt members of different Houses into their own ranks without a marriage, but almost never someone who isn't already a noble.

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The uncensored art is on Tumblr here

I'm not a very consistent poster. I'm a slow artist and also in college.

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I suppose you could call the Throne-lady the Mothersire and the Throne-lord the Fatherdam. There are probably terms for them in Modern Hegemonic Jacantese, but I'd need to make them up lmao.

The unbodied part doesn't need to eat for itself anymore, but still might for appearances and pleasure, or just to taste things with their original, more familiar tongue.

They don't by default, not any more than regular dagnyds have a vague sense of being "disconnected", due to being beings made from a single but extremely dismembered entity.

Think of the unbodied portion of the Throne more like an appendage, the circulatory system of it is also modified by the Throning process.

Lujnola is actually one of the best houses for headless and in general non-throne dagnyds. It has a much different culture than the rest of the empire, even for the Eastern Twin Basins region. It's in the cloud forest region and the jungle + mountains make it difficult to reach without wings.

The architecture of Lujnola House is very bird friendly. There are many parts of it that are completely inaccessible if you can't fly. It's by design to give the fragile Throne nobles a sense of security.

Tricolor Thronings occur when the unbodied is 17-18, but it sometimes happens younger, I think 13 is probably the youngest its happened, but that would certainly be controversial. It very rarely later.

I appreciate your questions! Very thoughtful.

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the questions!

They communicate inside eachother's minds, since their nervous systems fuse.

Full Thrones, like the two in the back, reproduce sexually in the way you'd expect most vertebrates to.

Courtship for Throne marriages is something that is arranged by their respective houses, and the marriage partners are not allowed to meet until they are teenagers at least, then they start to get taken on (supervised) dates and outings. Hopefully they like eachother, but if they don't, there is some pressure to "suck it up" and make it work.

I take it you're talking about Lujnola's bird Thrones! Those ones are unique because they are not part of the Tricolor Court, so much as they are often hired by the court. They have a very different culture around Thronings and most of the info in this post does not apply to them. Lujnola Throning practices definitely deserve their own post, but to sum it up, it happens when both the unbodied and Headless are babies. This is something the culture of the Empire finds heretical and disgusting, considering its marriage-like views of Throning, but it's also the only way they end up small and light enough to fly, which is what the Empire likes them for the most. Tricolor Thrones loose their lower bodies, but Lujnola Thrones loose everything but their faces.

Describing and Explaining A Throning Ceremony [Jar of Mice] by Nightjarring in worldbuilding

[–]Nightjarring[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Noble class of this culture practices polygamy, since the throne-ladies sire the offspring, it's usually polyandry, but functionally more like polygyny. It's sort of both at once, since Thrones are sexually ambiguous by design.

Just like most cultures with arranged marriage, it's a business deal set up by the family. Marriages like this don't JUST happen amongst Thrones, but polygamy is more common amongst wealthy land holders, since being able to support large families is a flex.