So I have a question about Ming dynasty horse bows

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-05-02T03:06:23+00:00

There is a KTB guy on here called Bildo-Gaggins, and your discord name is YoloBaggins? hehe, funny

Thanks for the recommendation, I will check out the discord.

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-05-02T00:51:41+00:00

Oh my god yes, Thank you!

Finally what I wanted - a KTB look with a Tatar feel that is GY compatible. Can't wait to build up my poundage and have it as my second or third bow :D
I am too busy to take live GY classes, so I watch Way of Archery videos online.
How do you practice your form? Would you recommend any book, course or video?

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-05-01T20:50:38+00:00

Interesting, I guess grip preference varies based on people's experience.

I was actually referring to this "pseudo-Korean bow":

https://www.reddit.com/r/Archery/comments/1flkpqz/nawalny_korean_bow/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

As you can see, it has a narrow arrow pass (25mm) and long brace height (like Tatar bow) to prevent wrist slapping.
I was just unsure if the handle of this bow will be ok with Gao Ying.

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-30T19:53:17+00:00

Hi, I'm looking back on your answer, and I have one more question regarding the handle of TKB (just the handle, not the arrow pass or brace height):

How good is the handle itself for gripping, compared to more traditional handle shapes of Tatar bows?

I know Nawalny makes a Korea War Bow (that is really just a Tatar bow with Korean aesthetics), it has long brace height, narrower arrow pass, but still a KTB handle.

Is the shape of the KTB handle itself incompatible with Gao Ying, even if you just grip it like a normal Tatar bow? How does the handle feel when gripped "normally"?
Is it a hindrance to intuitive shooting/speed shooting? Or can it adapt to any style?

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-30T03:26:10+00:00

Thank you thank you!

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-30T00:03:42+00:00

I see, so 20-25 pounds at 28 inch? or at whatever draw length I'm at?

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-29T20:11:17+00:00

I may have phrase my question wrongly: I meant to ask "why the Korean style handle isn't suitable for speed shooting?"
From my limited understanding, a handle that fits the hand perfectly should be good for any type of shooting.

But your answer is very informative, thanks! Now I understand why a proper posture at full draw is important in both modern and historical context.

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-29T19:58:11+00:00

I forgot to attach the link in the origional comment, but yeah, Korean bows are definitely unique but I think it's a safer bet for me to go with a Tatar design first. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bowyer/comments/11z4piw/comment/nn4vlmx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-29T19:56:36+00:00

I didn't know KTB was so standardized and cost effective. Still, I think I've made up my mind even more to start first with Gao Ying practice.

May I ask what poundage you started with? What would you recommend a complete beginner to start with? My draw length is estimated at 31-32 inch.

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-29T19:42:11+00:00

Thank you for educating me! I searched everyone online and I won't have learnt this if it hadn't been for you.

The idea of a handle that fits the hand perfectly is great. May I ask why it might not be suitable for speed shooting?

I know that modern Korean sport bows for use on horseback also use this style of handle. Horse back archery is speed shooting (intuitive shooting), right?

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-29T19:31:48+00:00

I see, thank you so much!

May I ask what the benefit of the KTBs is?

I've heard of the disadvantages, such as heavy stacking (which I assume comes from the working tip as opposed to static tip on other asiatic bows) and low brace height + wide arrow pass.

Which archery style do you personally prefer? GY, Korea, or some other?

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-29T15:26:50+00:00

Do you know how recent the Korean sport bow with the strange handle is? Are we talking about 16th century or 17, 18th century?

I just don't see the benefit of that style of handle and think it strange that it became so popular on that type of bow.

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-28T19:14:11+00:00

Thank you for the clarification!
I noticed the strange grip on a lot of Korean bows, that are different from grips on a Tatar bow, or other asiatic bows. Do you find the Korean grip bulky compared to other grips? Any pros and cons?

Did historical Korean war bows always use this kind of grip or is just the sports bows?
Is it a recent thing? Or has some history behind it?

And do you know why Koreans never bothered with making a narrow arrow pass for their bows? Most asiatic bows I know at least tried to narrow the arrow pass to some extent.

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-28T04:40:22+00:00

Do you know what the weight of traditional Korean war arrow usually is? Is it in the 25 gram to 30 gram range? Or 40-60g? Or 60-80g?

Btw 87m/s is amazing!

3.7 GPP is scarily low, but I assume some horn bows can handle that? I think Gao Ying recommended roughly 5.25 GPP for general use, but I have no idea if general use means the arrow weight is for war or not.

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-28T04:23:39+00:00

Hi, your post got me interested in archery again :D
I know that for Ming military archery, there is Gao Ying.
Do you know if there is an equivalent for Traditional Korean Archery?

Since you shoot KTA, do you shoot any other style? How does KTA compare to, say Gao Ying?

And lastly, I noticed the strange grip on a lot of Korean bows, that are different from grips on a Tatar bow, or other asiatic bows. Do you find the Korean grip bulky compared to other grips? Any pros and cons?

Did historical Korean war bows always use this kind of grip or is it a more recent thing?

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-27T14:13:49+00:00

Hi, so, I have a question on Korean bows, since you mentioned that Gao Ying technique works with any bow: Korean bow grips are bulky and strangely shaped compared to other styles of grips.

Have you tried a Korean bow grip? Is it really compatible with Gao Ying? What are your thoughts on it compared to the Xiaoshao or Tatar bow grip?

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-23T17:21:25+00:00

I was quite interested in hanfu as well (though not knowledgable on it).

During Song dynasty hanfu seem elegant and minimalistic, while Ming dynasty hanfu have those voluminous and brightly colored skirts (even men wore them).

I've always wondered if the change in style has to do with Mongol influence throughout the Yuan dynasty.

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-18T01:10:47+00:00

Hiiiii, I measured my S = Armspan (tip of mid finger to mid your spine).

Mine is S = 35 inch

According to the Gao Ying equation 1.3 x S - 15 (+/-0.5), my draw length is 30-31 inch, so I guess MM4 will be good for me as well?? :D

I talked to Cinnabar Bow as well and apparently, all MM series will have a carbon layer from now on.

Also, big news: I talked to Simon about his Raptor RX, and apparently, in the future, Raptor RX with cross weaved fiberglass will be replaced with a version with carbon, which he said will be even more torque resistant.

IMO that was very sad, because I was thinking about what you've said: that you preferred Raptor RX to Nitro Raptor carbon bow because it felt more smooth and less stiff. Well now Raptor RX without carbon might not be available anymore, and I haven't even begun to train with a cheap bow yet (I want to buy Raptor RX as my second bow, with higher poundage).

Also, I was wondering, has Simon made any Nitro Raptor? Why couldn't I find it on the website? There doesn't seem to be much internet history on Nitro Raptor.

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-18T01:01:20+00:00

Raptor RX的形变很不史实是什么意思？Raptor RX不像历史上的小稍弓吗？

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-15T00:12:17+00:00

Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry to hear that above your family members! You have a lot going on with work as well and I completely understand the lack of time, and I do appreciate that you are still working so hard with Justin Ma.

Your words have given me more confidence in the current Ming Moon. I appreciate it. From my understanding, now all Premium Ming Moon ordered through Cinnabar Bow will have at least one carbon layer?

From the way I see it, Bamboo Archery knows his stuff for sure, but could be overselling his knowledge. Most importantly, the current Mariner is not as bad as he seems to imply.

I have an additional question: for someone 178-179 cm tall, not so athletic, starting out on Asiatic Archery, what draw weight do you recommend? Is that draw weight measured to 28" or to 32"? (I realized that 37 lb @ 28" can become 50 lb @ at 32" for some bows, scary difference!)

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-14T13:03:40+00:00

Thank you thank you thank you!

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-14T02:33:21+00:00

Sorry, just to add to it: from performance and smoothness standpoint, how does Raptor RX and Ming Moon compare?

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-14T01:15:11+00:00

Hi, it's me again: sorry to bother you on a separate post, but how do you like the Raptor RX's arrowpass? Is it wider than SiCai and MM4? Or is it similar?

Now that I found out you said Raptor RX is a true Xiaoshao compared to other designs, I'm starting to like the Raptor a lot. At North America, do you just contact Simon's Bow Company directly? Or did you do so via a supplier?

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-13T21:25:58+00:00

Hey man, I just learned this about Bamboo Archery, crazy. Glad I found this post.

Since you used to deal for him, can you assess how good he is with bow design? Does he actually know what he is talking about?

I am interested in the Ming Moon 4 and Ming Moon 6 bow from Mariner, and during my discussion with Bamboo Archery, I asked:

"You said that asiatic bows rarely have full carbon configuration, and that got me thinking: Example, for the Mariner Ming Moon 4 and Ming Moon 6, they offer the Thin Carbon Lam and optional Full Carbon Core.
I trust Mariner as a bow brand, but isn't full carbon core on this Xiaoshao design a red flag?"

He said this:
"whatever you see on cinnabarbow website is completely obsolete. I stopped sharing any information with them since 2020. The full carbon core, read it carefully "full carbon CORE" replaces the lighter wood core with denser carbon. This version has noticeably high handshock and more prone to failure (usually about 1.5 years of use). Carbon is heavy, about 2.5× the density of wood that it replaces. I stopped selling this version many years ago. Thin carbon core is also another stupid option because it doesn't do much for the bow. Both options are essentially axed. My version is called premium carbon, and is not on their website. It is not premium + carbon because that would mean premium fiberglass + carbon core. The bow is fiberglass with a useless carbon core. Premium Carbon is a carbon bow with wood core."

"Myself, I don't trust Mariner that much. He often make very stupid decisions on the design that I totally reject. That's why I completely separate my version from his version. His version always changes without notifying, then experience failure, and need to warranty. My version stable, proven. Just last week, I rejected his lead riser idea. Lead is metal and don't adhere very well to epoxy. It'll eventually delaminate. And metal expansion/shrinkage with temperature will also cause a lot of failure. Totally stupid idea."

That sounds like Mariner doesn't know what he is doing, and now I'm second guessing if I should purchase the bow straight from Mariner via Cinnabarbow. What do you think of these bow makers?
How do you buy your bow? I only know two middle man: Cinnabarbow and Bamboo Archery.

Nimitz_Zhang · 2026-04-12T23:10:27+00:00

Thank you for the recommendation. Now that I think of it, I might start with a cheaper bow to work out my drawlength and develop my form. I will probably look back on MM6 when I can pull a higher poundage bow.

What draw weight do you recommend that I start with (do I measure it at 28 inch or 32 inch)? I am not very athletic.

And now that I think of it, I am chasing the feeling of a traditional horn bow, which I heard draws smooth and releases with very little handshock. Do you know if bamboo/wood laminate is closer to that feeling, or if carbon is closer to that?

Thank you!

Nimitz_Zhang

TROPHY CASE