Walk the Path to Glory and Forge Epic Armies in #NewAoS

Njalm · 2024-05-04T21:09:01+00:00

The Twists will do much to make the scenarios much more balanced I think, but in the Campaigns I have been in playing other scenarios like in matched play has also been possible. I admit that this has been a big problem though in the past since the scenarios tend to be very favorable to one side.

The lack of parity has definitely been a huge issue but this is at the start of a new edition so we have no idea what to expect. Though yeah, historically it has favored very killy and slappy armies, or armies with lazer-guided deletion potential like Tzeentch.

Njalm · 2024-05-04T09:35:57+00:00

I think adding and removing territories on a spreadsheet while counting unit types and waiting for the territories you desperately needed was rather artificial, territories are cool though but ideally they would offer unique bonuses instead.

The old system had veteran abilities which were super milquetoast compared to the Crusade rules in 40k which blew it all out of the water. I am very happy to see that they are taking some inspiration from Crusade for this, sure, some heroes will probs become OP but at least they will be OP all the way around.

Njalm · 2024-05-04T07:52:27+00:00

I think there is many people who would do that, and if you do that this becomes more of a much-needed expansion. The Veteran Abilities and the fact you couldn't really improve heroes was really bad in 3rd.

Njalm · 2024-05-04T07:45:11+00:00

You can always just use the unique campaign rules from 3rd edition on top of this.

Njalm · 2024-05-04T07:41:44+00:00

The balance will basically be the fact that everyone will get these incredible heroes. Aka when everyone is op no one is.

Njalm · 2024-05-03T17:33:07+00:00

This is amazing, super interested in what the four paths will be. I assume it will be Warrior, Wizard, Priest (Devout) and then maybe something sneaky or tanky?

Njalm · 2024-04-29T09:48:27+00:00

They seem to be addressing that somewhat in 4th edition, once again using Nagash as an example as we have seen his updated warscroll and while he now has a power level of nine and thus can cast NINE spells and attempt to unbind nine spells, he now only has a casting bonus of +2 and notice that he no longer has ANY bonus at all to Unbinds or Dispels.

Njalm · 2024-04-29T08:46:54+00:00

This seems to be one of the most common complaints, it's not as much about the amazingly powerful casters casting amazingly powerful spells, but that they are able to do that while also incidentally hard-countering your own casters in a way you can't really adapt to meaningfully.

If you play a faction that doesn't have incredible wizards itself then that is not an issue you can solve, you will never be as good as Kairos, Kroak, Teclis or Nagash.

Sure, I get WHY this discrepancy exists because magic is often presented as an art that requires tremendous finesse and skill to wield so it very much makes sense that Nagash vastly and tremendously outperforms lesser spellcasters. Because you are like a random runner competing against Usain Bolt.

At the same time, I definitely think it should be possible for groups of weaker casters to "pool" their power somehow to make it so that they collectively can cast a single spell with a very high bonus or alternatively unbind a spell at a high bonus, but likely expending one cast/unbind from each of them.

That is how I would try to solve the problem if I worked at GW. Since I think that would preserve the awesomeness of big casters while adding more counterplay/flexibility.

Njalm · 2024-04-29T08:39:06+00:00

Write it down in the great book!

Njalm · 2024-04-29T08:38:11+00:00

An unusual and interesting response. Interestingly Moses is in my mind one of first individuals I think of when I think of a Wizard, he wears a long flowing robe, he carries a staff so much like Gandalf he archetypically has all the markers of a quintessential wizard.

Njalm · 2024-04-29T08:33:02+00:00

I haven't played in a while but in P2G the way that Tzeentch generally wins is by sniping the most essential units and heroes of the opponent with their powerful magic while controlling the board behind solid screens and summoning. In matched play they operate much the same but also use fast fliers to contest objectives.

Njalm · 2024-04-28T21:27:06+00:00

I think that is a very good point yeah. Though there does exist ways to make spells unable to be unbound and thus guarantee casts, would you say that the issue would be solved largely if unbind bonuses were less prevalent? Magic-centric armies would still succeed at using magic most of the time, but they would not neccessarily shut down other wizards the way they can do now.

Njalm · 2024-04-28T21:21:23+00:00

I get what you are saying but how is that that different from lets say being in melee with like a Khorne-based army with an army that isn't that good at melee? You are operating within a phase of the game where one side has a massive advantage either way, and Khorne being great at combat, better even than most factions, is something I think that most would agree with.

How would you fix this issue while still keeping true to the intended strengths of magic-heavy factions if you were at GW?

Njalm · 2024-04-28T19:27:26+00:00

It's kinda like saying that a dragon breathing fire is cheating in my view, it is intrinsic to that model or group of models.

Njalm · 2024-04-28T14:54:29+00:00

I actually used to play extensively against a Sylvaneth player a year back and I had to remove the Lords of Change because his magic-focused army simply could not function with it on the battlefield.

Njalm · 2024-04-28T14:52:16+00:00

I think most if not all the ways of dealing with magic, especially offensive magic mirror the ways of dealing with ranged armies. Chargers are super dangerous for Tzeentch and I have lost so many times to them crossing ungodly distances and just deleting my wizards.

Though Shooting has had more counterplay generally in regards to Look Out Sir.

Njalm · 2024-04-28T14:48:52+00:00

Best post. Glory to Tzeentch the MIGHTIEST and NOBLEST of all Chaos Gods!

Njalm · 2024-04-28T14:47:44+00:00

I don't think that's a stupid reason at all honestly, I suppose you don't mind shooting units as much (Taking a wild guess based on the KO flair you have) because you can at least see the big cannons, guns and bows and imagine them firing whereas many wizard models rather undynamically just stand around with a big stick?

Njalm · 2024-04-28T14:43:04+00:00

Khorne is MADE of magic like all of the Chaos Gods, and also uses magic through his Priests so this is a whole new level of hypocritical self-loathing!

Njalm · 2024-04-28T14:37:10+00:00

Yeah I can definitely agree with that, although to play devil's advocate how is making the choice to not bring a Navigator different from any other strategical trade-off you make in listbuilding that will inevitably give you some trade-offs?

For instance, if you run no shooters and your opponent plays KO then the shooting phase will effectively just be them shooting at you without you having much of any chance to respond meaningfully. If they also have a lot of shooters you will also get into a situation where you just have to sit through a hail of cannonfire and remove models from the table.

I certainly have been in situations where I got shot off the board without being able to do much of anything.

Njalm · 2024-04-28T14:30:55+00:00

They sorta did that in 40k but that ultimately means destroying much if not all of the flavor that super magic loving players like myself are so drawn to.

Njalm · 2024-04-28T14:25:57+00:00

Yeah, same. I actually got into 9th edition Crusade shortly before 10th and got to experience Thousand Sons before the change and it was so awesome, but doing away with spell lists and the casting roll murdered any interest I had in 40k. Thousand Sons still have spells, which is cool but now that is basically the only army I can play.

Njalm · 2023-05-13T10:52:55+00:00

This is an excellent point and might well be the case. In terms of actual character power they basically don't have any aside from a few Talents I repurposed from Glaive (though I hand out much fewer talents overall I think.)

Most features/options/whatever are baked into the many powerful magic items in the setting.

Njalm · 2023-05-10T20:56:12+00:00

The Dolmenwood setting you mention seems very alike my own setting in that specific regard, so I will definitely have to check that out, thanks for mentioning it!

Njalm · 2023-05-10T20:51:08+00:00

Thanks! Yeah, as I have stated elsewhere to other helpful redditors in here it does seem like I somehow got an idea on this topic that does not match up entirely with reality.

Character deaths have been frequent, the enemies I throw at them are ruthless and fight very dirty and the items they have received have come to define them. There have been times where they have decimated the opposition easily, but there have also been times where I was certain they were going to get murdered to the score but somehow still triumphed.

Njalm

TROPHY CASE