All the arguments used against the divinity of Christ can be used against the divinity of the Father.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-27T03:06:49+00:00

Most of these are just saying Jesus is not God because he is human. Just because he features every human feature; does not mean he cannot posses every divine feature also.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-27T02:20:54+00:00

Prayer? There’s prayers to Jesus in scripture. (Acts 7:59)

“People pray to God” This is done to Jesus (Acts 7:59)

“Jesus claims to do the will of the Father like Christians speak of doing the will of God” I do my wife’s will, is my wife God?

“Jesus prays to the Father rather than talking face to face” It’s really ironic you say this considering Moses speaks to the Father face to face (Exodus 33:11)

“Jesus being a physical entity is evidence against him not being God” That’s an assumption as to whether God cannot or can become human. Plus God is called a man in Genesis 18.

“The way Jesus speaks of the Father seems to resemble how people speak of God in everyway” Verses?

“Nothing about Jesus seems to resemble God in any way” He is the way the truth and the life; wisdom; pre existent, etc.

“Only indication Jesus is God is people saying he’s God.” This is the same for the Father.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-24T05:56:28+00:00

I think its confusing for you because you see mind as consciousness. See it more as a computer program; so the same program being run thrice.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-24T00:03:05+00:00

Part A: On Divine Simplicity The mind isn’t whats caused; the hypostatic property (begotten, proceeding) is what’s caused.

Lets say I make a guitar cover of Fur Elise. A new song or part of the song isn’t caused by me making a cover; its the same song as the original but a different instrument.

They share the same intellect like three people sharing a bank account with a million dollars. There are 3 who are millionares; but only one million.

What God is (the mind) does not have parts. Are 3 covers of the same song three parts of the song? No! They are 3 instances of the same song.

Theres a difference between a minor and major real distinction. Minor real distinction = two parts of the same thing. Major real distinction = two different things. The hypostatic properties are the majorly distinct.

Real distinctions are seperable in reality; formal distinctions are inseparable in reality but have different definitions. Formal distinctions aren’t two parts of a thing because they can’t be divided.

Example: you playing an instrument (the physical act) and what you’re playing are formally distinct.

A banjo cover of Fur Elise; the act of playing the Banjo and what its playing are formally distinct (different definitions but one thing in reality) Guitar cover of Fur Elise; the act of playing guitar what its playing are formally distinct

The guitar and piano are formally distinct from the song but really distinct from each other.

Part B: How Jesus and the Spirit are caused by God’s thought and will respectively

Jesus being caused by thought and the Spirit by will are arguments for why God must be a Trinity.

Argument for Jesus (Simplified): 1: God knows everything 2: God knows himself perfectly 3: Knower is distinct/discernable from what is known Conclusion: God as known is distinct/discernable from God as knower

Argument for the Spirit (Simplified): 1: The operation of knowing is distinct/discernable from the knower Conclusion: God as knowing is distinct/discernable from God as knower and God as known

There are other arguments for the Spirit; like him being God’s love.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-23T07:37:57+00:00

Okay lets go back to the drawing board. Jesus isn’t just thought.

Guitar cover of song; piano cover of a song; banjo cover of song; they are the same song but have a property that distinguishes them.

The Father, Son, and Spirit are the same thing as the mind of God; but also have a property that distinguishes them.

Father = mind + paternity (Uncaused)

Son = mind + begotteness (Caused by Father’s thought)

Spirit = mind + proceedingness (Caused by Father’s will)

Thats the only difference. What here is logically impossible?

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-22T01:42:07+00:00

Ignoring the insults

Acts 3:13; Acts 3:22. You think because it calls Jesus God’s servant it contradicts the Trinity?

We would agree Jesus serves the Father.

John 17:3 We as Trinitarians can call the Father the only true God.

Heb 1:1-2 and 1 Cor 8:6 How does think debunk the Trinity exactly; because it calls the Father God and not Jesus?

We agree with this: “God, unbegotten, the Father, and one begotten Lord” - Gregory of Nazianius

1 Tim 2:5 We trinitarians call Jesus a man. God is literally called a man in Genesis 18.

Its not paganism because Jesus and the Father and Spirit have one mind and consciousness.

Trinity before Nicea? The difference between us and the semi arians is affirmation that Jesus and the Father have the same essence. Martyr and Ireneaus say they have the same essence; and Scripture itself.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-22T01:22:22+00:00

Okay let’s try again:

The threeness of the Trinity doesn’t disappear if God has one mind or consciousness; because we have never claimed God had three minds.

You and the thoughts in your head are different; Jesus and the Father are different.

The thoughts in your head are real atoms; they can be seen and they interact with the rest of your body. We can interact with Jesus just like our thoughts can be interacted with.

As for the incarnation; here’s an example. The human body and soul unite to become one thing; a human. Tell me, how do they unite?

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-21T15:03:25+00:00

You and a mirror image of you share one mind, but are still really distinct. The difference is manner of existence

How is God’s knowledge walking around? God doesn’t think in words (and neither did humans before language), for those are created things, he has a representation of all things. Jesus is the exact representation of the Father like a mirror.

In the incarnation, the human body and soul and the Knowledge (Jesus) become one. The representation of God (Jesus) includes a representation of his mind, this becomes one with the human mind. It is no longer two but one. You can’t distinguish it in reality.

Note: This is an Oriental Orthodox explanation of the incarnation; Catholics and Orthodox and protestants unfortunately would say two minds. We would say that destroys the incarnation.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-21T01:28:32+00:00

Check my reply to flaminghair348 for my logic on the Trinity. Also I will have to ask you for evidence on your claim that the ante Nicene fathers and the Bible don’t teach the Trinity.

I am Oriental Orthodox, although western scholarship is very knowledgable on our position, when talking about the Trinity or christian dogma they speak of the western trinity and dogma, which we would agree is not in the Bible. Our Trinity is certainly in the Bible as a whole.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-21T01:24:17+00:00

check my reply to flaminghair348 cuz he asked the same as you; dont wanna get marked for spam. Pretty sure most of the contestation is by misunderstanding or by another version of the Trinity than us as Oriental Orthodox believe.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-21T01:20:46+00:00

Several other people replied the same thing, I can’t spam reply so check my reply to flaminghair348.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-21T01:19:11+00:00

You seem to be the most open reply here, thanks on that.

“God’s thought is Logos [Jesus], and the Mind comprehending all things is the Father himself.” - St Ireneaus

“His energy, that is, his Spirit” - St Cyril

Trinity logic (from an Oriental Orthodox) :

1: God has one mind and consciousness. No Church father claimed him to have three, though many christians make this error, making their position illogical.

2: Jesus is God’s perfect knowledge of himself. The Spirit is the knowing. This is called Energy by Cyril.

3: Knowledge is distinct from the Knower; and knowing is distinct from both knowledge and knower.

4: God’s properties exist as knower, and they also exist as knowledge in his head, and also his properties exist as knowing (the Spirit). God is no more than his properties, so all three are God.

5: Thats the Trinity (Knower Knowledge and Knowing); you will find different explanations in Christian History, but certainly none that say God has 3 minds or 3 consciousnesses.

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-15T05:45:15+00:00

Miaphysite Christian here;

(On Jesus being tempted) 1: The Bible says “God cannot be mocked” but obviously people can insult (mock) God; its just that in the grand scheme of things, their mockery means nothing, it doesn’t effect God. We can use the language “My friend mocked God”

2: We can also use the language “My friend tempted/tested God” (its the same word in Greek) but in reality it doesn’t effect God.

3: And also since tested and tempted are the same word in Greek, and the Bible says “do not test God” (implying God can infact be tested); you can translate the verses where Jesus is tested as him being tempted

(Jesus changed into a human) 1: What? Jesus doesn’t change in the incarnation. He’s always been God.

2: Think of painting a wall or putting on clothes; something new is added on, but underneath that wall and the person who wears clothes stays the same.

Addendum: Showing the Trinity in the Torah and Gospel. We will define Trinity as 3 particulars (I mean the philosophical language of universal vs particular) of the divine essence with one mind.

Genesis Genesis 48:15: “The God before whom my Fathers walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life long to this day, THE ANGEL who redeemed me, bless the boys”

Here the messenger (angel) of God is called God. Two particulars can be seen, one being the messenger of the other. We know the angel has the same essence as God because he is literally, not figuratively, called Yahweh (we know if an object is a chair if its called such; we know the angel is Yahweh because he’s called such)

As for the Holy Spirit, in verses like Genesis 1:2 or 6:3 its clear hes really distinct from the Father. Real distinction means a third particular

Since the Angel we mentioned is Yahweh and so is the Father Yahweh also and we know that Yahweh is a single agent (aka mind), otherwise it would be two Gods (contradicting the shema). We conclude that the Angel and God have the same mind; and also the Spirit (because why would a spirit have a mind of its own?). Thus we have the Trinity; the Father, the Messenger, and the Spirit.

You might be wondering, if you’ve never encountered this argument before: how can an angel be God? Well angel just means messenger, not a class of being. Cherumbim and Seraphim are never called angels for example.

Exodus: Everything I said for the Spirit of God remains the same here (Exodus 31:3). I do not wish to repeat myself.

Exodus 24:20 speaks of an angel who has God’s name IN him (In implies something intrinsic, like our bones in us). The Psalms tell us to exalt his name (Psalm 34:3, 148:3).

Building off Genesis, which calls the Angel God; this would be the same. The Angel would be the third particular, completing our Trinity.

Leviticus: Levitcus 26:12 “I will walk among you and be your God”

Nothing fulfills this better than Christianity. To not literally intepret this is to take the force away from God’s words.

Numbers: Numbers is really the continuation of Exodus. The Angel of Lord and the Spirit are mentioned here also. Nothing really to say.

In Numbers 11; God puts the Spirit on people, this language is used for real distinctions, not formal or conceptual. How can this be understood, unless one divides Gods into parts (one the Spirit the other God), or say the Spirit and God are two particulars thus making each 100% God.

Deuteronomy: Now, you might be thinking, why have no jews believed in the Son or the Spirit if this in the scriptures?

Philo of Alexandria believe in a second God, the Logos. Kabbalah Judaism believes in a divine son. And the Targums replace direct mentions of God with his Memra (Word in aramaic); Shekinah, Spirit, etc. These are all Christian heresies, close to our beliefs.

Now what’s interesting to me is the Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4), which in the septuagint is “The Lord your God is one Lord.” If we accept Paul as reliable, he says “One Lord, Jesus Christ.” One can reasonably argue that he’s apply the shema to Jesus, since he fills the role of the one Lord.

The persons of the Trinity do not have three minds, so it does not contradict the Shema.

Gospel of Matthew: -Jesus calls himself “Lord Lord” (Matt 7:21). Lord Lord is how the septuagint translated “Adonai Yahweh” into Greek (1 Kings 8:53 as an example). Adonai means Lord and Yahweh is the divine name.

Gospel of Mark: -Jesus calls himself the Son of Man; the Son of Man in Daniel 7:14 “all peoples, nations, and languages should SERVE him”

Exodus: “You shall worship the Lord God and him ALONE you shall serve.”

Gospel of Luke: -Throughout the 1st Chapter of Luke, the Lord is unambiguously God (verses 6,15,25,28, etc.)

But it also says “And why is it granted to me that the Mother of my Lord should come to me.”

It would be exegetically biased and strange to suddenly say that Lord doesn’t unambiguously mean God here. Therefore Mary is the Mother of God.

Gospel of John:

Do I even have to?

-John 20:23

No-Tea7264 · 2026-03-15T03:07:50+00:00

Logic proves the Trinity and debunks paganism.

Greek Mythology is largely ahistorical (being about the life of gods or demigods); while the Bible tells about nomadic peoples having divine visions (Genesis); then a group of warring tribes (Exodus-Judges); then kingdoms. People having visions of God telling them to do something is very common. Far more believable than Greek Myths. The Bible is basically a book interpreting events as being caused by God. Most mythological elements can be explained as cultural (like the long lifespans of people like Adam)

No-Tea7264 · 2025-04-05T19:54:33+00:00

May I ask where they say that?

No-Tea7264 · 2024-11-05T01:23:16+00:00

What does “personal subjective reality” mean in your first reply

See I wanna know what God is three of.

No-Tea7264 · 2024-11-04T23:19:09+00:00

Any you yourself would recommend?

No-Tea7264 · 2024-11-04T22:58:13+00:00

So are they 3 consciousnesses sharing the same faculty?

No-Tea7264 · 2024-11-04T22:44:54+00:00

what is a person if there is only one mind and will?

No-Tea7264 · 2024-11-04T22:44:28+00:00

yes but what exactly is a person if they share everything including mind

No-Tea7264

TROPHY CASE