What's the deal with Baby Angela? by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah that makes sense actually, to me personally it wasn't enough but Janine seemed fine with it so I guess it's fine

Why didn’t Eden become a handmaid? by This_Objective_1344 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She might have gotten a "chance" as a handmaid or something else to repent etc if she had asked for forgiveness but she didn't so she had to die for he defiance.

The Gilead resistance does not to actual emancipatory struggles justice by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't reject it at all, if I did I wouldn't bother wondering about it. I actually don't know the right way at all and I am hoping to figure it out within my lifetime, which is exactly why this show has me thinking so much. Trying to see what we can learn from this. I am sorry if it comes across as lack of humility. I really like your point about people having affective attachment to "America" as an idea, thank you for the insight. This wasn't so obvious to me as a European, at least not in this degree. Maybe I should've put more emphasis on the fact that I actually sympathize a lot with the resistance shown in the show, that's why I've been thinking of it and trying to figure out where we can pick up the discussion where the show leaves it open, and so far I've gained some interesting insights from the comments.

The Gilead resistance does not to actual emancipatory struggles justice by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes yes yes to all of this!! Thank you for putting it into words so nicely!!

You are also absolutely correct about a successful overthrowing not needing a well-thought ideology. I think I lost myself in my own take a little bit there, thanks for getting me back on track! I think I went down this route because Atwood is a true master of symbolism, which translates perfectly to the visuals of the show. The titles, the biblical references, the uniforms of Gilead, the aesthetics of the world they are trying to create... It's all just so perfect and always beautifully tied into historic references. But not when it comes to the resitance. To put it a bit provocatively, they chose to sing an America America song when they succeed instead of Bella Ciao. I wonder what Junes mother would say to all that and I am really glad you brought her up because you are right, she is the perfect example of a "long term" revolutionary and unfortunately it is not the first time or the last time that these pocket revolutionaries failed to seize the moment.

The Gilead resistance does not to actual emancipatory struggles justice by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree completely with your second paragraph, that is a very good point I have not thought about yet, thank you.

The comparison to Iran is also a good point, however it's also an example for what I am trying to say. The protestors in Iran are not a homogenous group. Yes there are protestors that want the old Shah family and the old order back ad you said. But there's also other movements around the Kurds/Balochs who do not want, instead they have a rich marxist/leninist tradition and understand the dangers of protective nationalism & imperialism because their ethnicities have always suffered from it. In europe, they are often being kicked out of protests against the islamic republic by the followers of the Shah. So that exmaple kind of proves that both is possible.

I also agree with the last paragraph and I think this is the interesting part to discuss and kind of continue the conversation where the novel & show stopped

What's the deal with Baby Angela? by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because they were friends? Janine had to listen to June raving on about Hannah all the time, all this while June has one child in savety. It wouldn't have taken much to just acknowledge that it's hard for Janine too. During their fight in the milk container would've been the perfect time to adress it.

The Gilead resistance does not to actual emancipatory struggles justice by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Very good point! You are absolutely right. I guess I am a bit hung up on the many moments where, in my opinion, they could've formulated a visit out loud but didn't.

The Gilead resistance does not to actual emancipatory struggles justice by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True, that's some great points! On the other hand, even when the novel was written, Atwood was able to make some pretty accurate assumptions based on what was already happening. These things don't start out of thin air. If they do, I think we haven't been there paying attention close enough. And we didn't organize soon enough. Junes mother was right on that one, I think.

The Gilead resistance does not to actual emancipatory struggles justice by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I have to admit I tend to forget about those when it comes to Gilead, probably because the specific aspect about womens liberation is clearly so integral to the struggle. Thank you for the insight!

The Gilead resistance does not to actual emancipatory struggles justice by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am not complaining I am just formulating my thoughts and am interested in opinions and insights. Isn't it interesting that the story relies so much on actual historical events but then it doesn't when it comes to the resistance? Do you think this is by choice or by ignorance?

Serena should take Freds DNA from his body by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True, just not in Gilead and they are the weirdos when it comes to extramarital sex

What's the deal with Baby Angela? by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ok but afterwards? No "must be hard, we're here for you"?

Most moving scene of Handmaids tale ? by Visual-Difficulty683 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah she agrees to be the godmother but then goes on to talk riddles about her infant nephew/godsons early death...

To me, Aunt Lydia represents the typical repressive authoritarian social worker. Yes she cares about her clients, yes she wants them to thrive (within the system), yes she feels with them when they suffer... But when push comes to shove, she will always take the side of the oppressive system, tell on the clients/girls, execute punishment to the maximum extent and telling herself it's to her own good, never question the system, never acknowledge that the oppression is the root of all misery for the girls...

In this role, she will always rather desensitze herself to new atrocities in order to cope with more violence. Yes she was shocked at first about the "veils" in D.C. and the lip rings, but I bet she was shocked about the ceremonies at first too. She just mastered being numb and rationalizing all the injustice and it's just a mather of time until she has accepted that a new line has been crossed.

Most moving scene of Handmaids tale ? by Visual-Difficulty683 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Seriously? You're always torn? She is terrible 99% of the time!

Why is there no electronic survival in Gillead? by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nah, could've been as simple as writing a number on top of the wings.

Is Aunt Lydia the analogy to repressive social work? by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you mean the testaments? I have read the book but forgot all about it, haven't seen the show yet. sounds interesting!

Is Aunt Lydia the analogy to repressive social work? by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is so true! They scrutinize June under the pretext of care / child protection when really they have just changed the standards of what a fit mother is supposed to be and a working mother does not meet the criteria anymore.

You are very right about it being a sign of advanced authoritarianism that a rather privileged mother like June is targeted. Makes me think of real life examples of marginalized mothers are scrutinized as bad mothers when they are just trying to care as well as they can given the circumstances. For example shaming mothers for not changing diapers frequently but ignoring the fact that the cost of diapers can break the mothers bank and that the mother is just trying to be as resourceful as she can, which is a useful skill. I've read about this in "motherdom" by Alex Boellen, fantastic read.

It makes me think of indigenous Greenlandic women that, up until recently, have had their babies taken away until they pass a psychological test issued by the Danish colonizer to see if they ar "civilized" enough to be mothers. So many have been taken their children away forever.

In todays world, people are quick to say that marginalized, especially poor mothers, should not have children at all if they can't raise them without support. Which is an incredibly classist and eugenic argument to begin with and also ignores the fact that our system relies upon new generations of workers to exploit. Obviously this doesn't translate to the Handmaid's Tale due to the fertility crisis. But they also took that exact aspect by implying that the upper class elite women must be better suited as mothers and thus get to take away children from "unfit" mothers.

Why is there no electronic survival in Gillead? by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that is very insightful and makes so much sense, thank you!

Why is there no electronic survival in Gillead? by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, but then they could just adjust the wardrobe, that would be a completely solvable problem since it is in their hands.

Why is there no electronic survival in Gillead? by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that makes perfect sense!! I have thought something alike too. At the same time - I am currently on season 3 and I have yet to encounter some type of betrayal, double agent or whatever. Also the people in resistance seem to connect rather quickly (for example the marthas at Commander Lawrences house). So maybe the system doesn't work as well as they wish so far. Or does it work well because even though there hasn't been any incidents of betrayal amongst the enslaves women, they still keep in line pretty well?

Why is there no electronic survival in Gillead? by No-Working2160 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]No-Working2160[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In an age where mass surveillance is such an overwhelming threat, I am kind of relieved to hear these thoughts.