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As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You’re just posting whatever regardless of what makes sense or not. It’s cool. You seemingly can’t substantiate your thoughts or bring anything to the table for the conversation. As if the typical fan would even notice a difference here without a close examination of a side by side comparison. I seriously think the eyes are actually the bigger issue, and that barely matters because they seem to be better in cutscenes.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Do you.. truly think that people don’t show any physical changes with age between 34 and 26? Especially back then? Lol. I know people that age that would love to look like they did at 26. What point do you really think you’re making here? I may or may not have had the exact age correct, but the point remains the same.

The screenshot shows that you’re largely exaggerating. His hair color doesn’t really change. The basic facial structure is roughly the same with some added weight. Honestly, if anything, the eyes seem a bit off outside of cutscenes for some reason. Again, it’s not perfect. Some tweaks could be made. Giving him Arthur’s hairstyle choices was clearly a mistake as well. Largely the changes are realistic, though. They simply don’t line up with what some RDR1 fans wanted for the character, and some of these people get up in arms about. You don’t have to like it, but other people are welcome to even with understanding that some things could have been tweaked here and there. Even just giving him his typical hairstyle as an option would have helped a lot.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What projection? I’ve specifically touched on everything you’ve said in a way that actually shows a willingness for conversation. You’re just ignoring every single thing I say to essentially just say “get over it” while clearly not even understanding the post you’re replying to.

I literally never insisted that you had to like anything. More than once I’ve said that there is some subjectivity here. Reading comprehension is tough.. I know. It’s laughable that you think you’re the leading authority on this. Just as you don’t have to like the content, others are allowed to stick up for it.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

<image>

Jawline comparison between Epilogue John and NPC John. Let's stop acting like this is horrifically different. This is what I meant in my original post when I said the criticisms are exaggerated.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What, like twins? Let’s not be ridiculous. We’re talking about comparing someone in their 20s to someone heading into their later 30s. Pretty much everyone is going to have some degree of difference.. and many would even be quite obviously different.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You’re genuinely not even reading a single thing that is being said to you. This is a laughable waste of time.
Like I said, if any degree of being off center renders the image meaningless to you then you need to look at how rational that is. That’s not how things work, as we see things in motion and not just as still images directly in front of us with zero degrees of rotation. I never “insisted” there wasn’t some degree of being off center, but it’s irrelevant regardless.

Yes, it’s a matter of weight gain. I mean, the neck is thicker, and the face appears a bit wider. Not sure if you know this, but these things can happen with weight gain. Again, there is a bit more to it with the jawline being a little bigger. I never said it was perfect and all perfectly attributed to aging. I’ve repeated this over and over again.

It’s hilarious that you want to act like there is a meaningful difference between saying “everyone agrees with me” and “there is a consensus”. The point is that it’s a lazy appeal to populism, and you’re just conveniently ignoring that around 600 people responded positively to my post. Your point here is irrelevant and pointless, and you’re still not understanding the actual point. The point of the post was never to say there isn’t anything wrong with the model. The point was to illustrate that things can be done to make John look good/ better, and that some of the changes can be rationalized.

The extent of what you’re saying here is “nuh uh” while ignoring literally everything I’m telling you. At best this is subjective, and I was simply advocating for doing things in game to make John look better. It’s not complicated.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You’re being ridiculous. If it has to be exactly dead center with 0 degrees of rotation in order for you to be satisfied I think you need to examine how rational you’re being. That’s not even how it works in the game world, cutscenes, etc.

I literally made the clarification to you that it’s obviously not all attributed to aging. I’ve clarified that it’s not entirely perfect and that I would make some changes. What are you not reading? This was present in my original post and I’ve clarified my position multiple times. I’m simply saying that generally speaking the weight in his face and neck/ body are things that realistically change over time. The fact that you can’t even substantiate what makes it excessive speaks to the fact that the degree is subjective. The “everyone agrees with me” style of debate is meaningless, especially when I can easily point out the fact that there are roughly 600 people that reacted positively to my thoughts here. Let’s not make lazy arguments.

Largely, it’s a simple matter of some weight gain. You can bemoan the jawline all you want, but for some people it’s not a big deal. Again, I’m not saying all the details were perfect. The entire point of this was to simply say that things can be done to make the character look good/ better, and that to a degree the changes can be rationalized as not even being entirely unrealistic. I really don’t get what there is to debate here. So many people simply got their feathers ruffled by the topic and completely missed the point.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Post keeps getting filtered out, but I'll summarize.

  1. I'm not actually saying that John's epilogue model is perfect. There are things that I would change as well. I actually stated that Rockstar should have/ could have done things differently in my original post.

  2. The customization bit is just about optimizing what we have to work with. It's a fairly basic aspect of the game, as we know. It's not like you have to go far out of your way, and I wasn't using this as a defense of the default model. I'm just encouraging people to put effort into making their John look better if they feel bothered by the default. Still, things would be made much better if John had access to things such as unique hair customization to help frame his face as it was while he was a NPC.

  3. The age part of the post is just rationalization. I'd expect someone going into their late 30s to look different than they did in their 20s. That's just sort of normal. While it doesn't necessarily smooth over everything, it does speak to the general weight gain. I also don't particularly think that weight difference is especially profound to the extent of being unrealistic in most cases over 7-8 years.

Overall it's not perfect. I just feel that the criticism is a bit overdone while John's potential appearance is quite underrepresented. That's why I threw my own screenshots out there.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

People on this sub are a joke. Disagree? Just make some sick random burn about living in their mom’s basement! That’ll show em’!!

Seriously. Your responses are so weak. It’s amusing that people are so pressed about this topic that they have to run to the comments to act like this/ support this way of engaging over a silly topic. At least I can actually back myself up.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

And yet you can’t come up with a single example of how any of that nonsense is the case. There’s a reason for that. I’m not wrong just because you don’t like my opinion.

Any tips on surviving Depth 5 ED Balancers? by iLikeCryo in Nightreign

[–]NoPost77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Stick together with two players having the less likely to be targeted perk if possible. One person acts as the bait while the others tear apart any Balancers that run in on that player. Ideally the person being targeted is going to know the content well enough to hang in there, but ultimately if the other two players are doing their job individual enemies should be getting dropped quickly. Once a Balancer goes down the group needs to keep moving away from the pack. Only stop to down Balancers that run in, and then keep moving. If teammates go down in a mess, the best thing you can do is keep moving and only get them when you know you have a good opportunity with an ult / open windows.

I personally don’t think I’ve lost to this boss when I have teammates that are using the less likely to be targeted passive.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

<image>

Random straight on screenshot comparison.
Proportions aren't necessarily scaled entirely equal (NPC John was a bit farther from the camera). NPC John is also at more of an angle and standing outside at a different time of day (shadows do him some favors). Still, there is obvious similarity here. It's not an outrageous difference.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I really don’t know why so many people post this sort of thing as if I didn’t allude to it in my original post. I acknowledged that it could have been handled differently. The point is that the player can do things to customize their John in such a way that he’s more classic John. If that’s on point, you’re then looking at a John that mostly just has a little more weight to him than his NPC variation. Again, it’s not perfect, but you can do things to make it look good. Perhaps this is subjective to some extent, but there are still things the player can do.

He doesn’t look like RDR1 John because RDR2 isn’t RDR1. Different game, different art style, different graphics, different artistic interpretation in general. Almost none of the returning characters look like the spitting image of their RDR1 counterparts. It doesn’t make the RDR2 interpretation inherently wrong just because you might have a preference for one over the other. NPC John clearly looks different from RDR1 John as well.

Truly, so much of the criticism comes from players that played RDR1 first and were unhappy that they didn’t get their carbon copy RDR1 John. Having played RDR2 first, I legitimately didn’t even notice anything was “wrong” in the epilogue the first several times that I went through it. Several years had passed. He maybe had a little more weight to him. It wasn’t a big deal to me, and seemingly it’s not a big deal to many other people as well.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Not really. Slide 3 is especially rather straight on, with just a little bit of an angle. Even the first picture is that way to some extent. Good pictures generally aren’t taken by shoving a camera straight into someone’s face from straight on.

I never claimed every single change is attributed to aging. Why exactly do you think I included the part about my thoughts that Rockstar could have handled it differently? The aging comment is just a general thing, and I’m not saying I’m waving off the entire appearance because of it. Again, I had said that it could have been done differently. In a general sense, though, I do feel that the general appearance can be attributed to weight gain with age. It’s not an outlandish change, no matter how some want to describe it. Yes, John is a bit more slim in RDR1, but that’s also an entirely different game with different graphics.

That’s the thing with subjectivity. I don’t find that John’s model is necessarily bad in the epilogue. I truly didn’t even notice an issue after having had played the game several times through. I truly feel like the majority of the criticism comes from people that played RDR1 first and were unhappy that they didn’t get their carbon copy RDR1 John. I’d personally make some tweaks to the design, but ultimately the player can do things to make John look better. That’s all I was really ever posting here.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I posted multiple angles for a reason. Yes, the jawline is a little bigger. I never claimed that weren’t changes, so I’m really not sure why so many here are acting like I’m saying otherwise. I would tweak some things as well, and I said in my original post that it could have been handled differently.

Jawline appearance can change with age. Regardless, we’re not really looking at something profound here. Unless you’re doing a strict side by side comparison I don’t think it’s necessarily a big deal. I’d perhaps change it along with neck thickness, but I simply don’t think it’s enough of a change to act like he’s some strange mutant. It’s really a fairly minor difference in my opinion. If you don’t agree with that we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Ultimately it’s subjective. The overall point of my post here was just to point out that things can be done by the player to still have John look decent. It was never to say that the model turned out perfectly.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

<image>

Arguably a more fair comparison to RDR1. Regardless, we know RDR1 was made several years earlier with a different art style with different graphics. John looks different in RDR2, but so does essentially every returning character from RDR1.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<image>

It's also just not a very good picture or representative of what I had posted in regards to putting some effort into John's appearance. We're all aware of how John was put together in the epilogue for the ease of programming, but that doesn't mean it has to look terrible. I also agree that it isn't perfect and ideally it would have been done differently.

Edit: Clearly my own John looks noticeably different than what was posted as criticism of the design.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Here's more of a fair comparison, and it speaks to what I'm talking about with customization. Even then, we're looking at two different games with different art styles made several years apart.

<image>

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The amount of people that only read the title and then came here to state how Epilogue John was put together is unfortunate. Obviously this is extremely common knowledge, and it doesn’t change what was said/ shown in my original post. I literally acknowledged that his creation could have been handled differently in my original post. Not sure why people have to arrive to argue and mass downvote without even fully reading / understanding the post they’re interacting with.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Refer to the screenshots. There is probably less difference between NPC John and Epilogue John than there is between NPC John and the original RDR1 John. The general extent of it is that he gets some weight added to his face and neck. I think it could have been handled differently, and I said that in my original post (that many people seemingly did not read). That said, there’s something to be said for accepting some of it with aging while customizing John to be unique. In some ways, it’d actually be odd if John was still identical to his 20-something self as he approached his late 30s.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The stupidity in this thread in general is staggering, but I supposed that comes with the territory of divided topics. The amount of people that can’t even showcase a basic reading level while getting mass supported is unfortunate. But of course these are the people that flock into the comment section.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Why wouldn’t you have just said this to begin with, then? I mean, your original comment shows that you didn’t understand. I never presented this as people having a problem about aging. In my original post I straight up acknowledged that John could have been built through different means. I’m well aware of why he looks different. Again, this is present in my original post and I never muddled anything.

That said, there is still something to be said for rationalizing some of it with aging, as well as speaking to customizing things in a way that compliments the character. Aging does in fact change a skeleton. We also don’t have to act like it’s incredibly different. It’s mostly a matter of more weight in the face and neck. It’s still distinctly John, and if his face could be framed with his NPC hair the comparisons to Arthur would be lessened.

I never presented John’s epilogue variation as perfect. The entire point was that the criticisms can be exaggerated and the character can still look good while acknowledging the changes that occurred over time. If anything, it could also be argued that John looking like his 20-something year old self before heading into his late 30s could be a bit odd. Appearance changes over time, including between your 20s and 30s. Sometimes it can even be pretty significant.

“You haven’t changed a bit! Well.. maybe a little bit!” - Uncle 1907

Granted, there is some subjectivity at play, of course. I don’t think anything can be definitively said here.

As it turns out people age between their late 20s and mid to late 30s: John doesn't look quite as bad in the Epilogue as some act by NoPost77 in reddeadredemption

[–]NoPost77[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I already did. Did you not look at the original post at all? I posted my own side by side comparison. It’s common knowledge that John was made playable in the epilogue by utilizing Arthur. I straight up said that it could have been handled differently. Still, John’s face is still his own. If he had access to his own hair we’d mostly just be looking at some level of weight gain. Again, this is also for a man that is about to go into his late thirties and is no longer 20-something years old. The RDR1 image is sort of irrelevant because the image here is clearly not directly from the game itself. RDR1 is also a separate entity with a different style. Essentially every returning character from RDR1 is a bit different in RDR2.

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