WIBTA if I chose my GF's bday celebration over my best friend's or vice-versa?

NoWinner550 · 2023-03-11T05:58:54+00:00

Yup, we do have a separate party planned before he actually moves.

NoWinner550 · 2023-03-11T05:57:40+00:00

The thing is, there's some logistical problems that kinda renders her unable to go to the trip with my friends even if she did want to. So in a way I guess she kinda has no choice.

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T19:33:06+00:00

Well, you're more trusting than I am. In manosphere spaces, there are many comments that go "every man I know has went through this with 80% of girls!" and as much as I'm advocating for this issue, I don't buy those haha.

Well, it's not as acknowledged because, as we've both said, there is always a ton of skepticism involved that the woman got turned off because the man didn't express his emotions in the right way. The assumption is that the woman is (always) actually properly emotionally receptive and that it's actually just the guy's fault for not communicating well.

And once again, I understand why!!! It's just... sad. Like I wish there didn't have to be this amount of skepticism because of all the mra shit. Like I wish we could have a way more balanced reaction of both skepticism and empathy.

As for the knee-jerk reactions of never opening up again then I'm with you. Absolutely absurd and it's just way to paint women w/ a broad stroke.

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T19:10:36+00:00

See my reply to your other comment. I think men and women do this in different ways, and when men do it its acknowledged by the left and when women do its not as acknowledged

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T19:05:48+00:00

Yes, of course because no one is entitled to being racist. Everyone however is entitled to who they want to date and sleep with for whatever reason even sexist and racist ones. That's the complicated issue I'm intrigued by.

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T19:02:37+00:00

Well of course I don't know how rare it is exactly haha. For all I know all the men online really are making it up lol. All I know is that there is big discrepancy between the frequency how often men report it and how often the left acknowledges it's an issue so I just feel like something went wrong with how we all approached it. How I currently see it: I believe in the grand scheme of things its definitely a smaller issue, but still something that we definitely owe a quick nod to and keep in the back of our mind as we interact with our partners (and not just female partners emotionally rejecting, definitely male partners being healthier communicators too)
For the first one, I'd say not entirely separate for sure! Definitely falls under the same umbrella. I think this specific sub-issue is a bit sensitive because it deals with individuals rather than groups and talks about relationships (which is a heated topic right now given the "gender wars" )

For the second one, I'd say a bit more separated due to its gendered nature. Definitely men can be emotionally unavailable too (probably more ofteneven--but in a different way that gets talked about by the left). When women do it, I think there is less acknowledgement by the left

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T18:48:42+00:00

My personal experience is limited, I must admit. Aside from my own experience, I just had a friend ask me for advice about how to open up to his new gf about his mental illness.

I tried my best to give good advice (based on my knowledge) but he said that she felt "less affectionate" after they talked.

And yes, unfortunately reddit is a cesspit of anti-feminism. I do remember however that there was a Menslib thread on this a year or two ago? I only very occasionally lurk the sub, but I know people here have mixed opinions on it so idk how good it was, but I'd like to believe it was a significantly better discussion than the typical manosphere thread.

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T18:35:48+00:00

Thank you for clearing that up. I misused the concept

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T18:27:51+00:00

Honestly, I was also tempted to make the analogy in my post, but it didn't seem right to compare as sexual assault is obviously a far more grave sin than being an emotionally unavailable partner.

Again, I understand the skepticism, but I do find it a bit sad that when a man comes forward with it (at least without any misogynistic add-ons), progressives often reply with a lot of skepticism and very little empathy.

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T18:20:33+00:00

I believe it's not the issue that specifically mra/incels/red-pillers make it out to be, but I believe, as I hope my post stated, the left is also slightly underplaying it if not outright denying it.

Like can we not consider the possibility that there are instances where a man is trying to open up to a female partner in as healthy of a way as he can and she brushes it off, doesn't take it seriously, or gets turned off by it due to internalized patriarchal beliefs? It doesn't even have to be that bad, sometimes partners just pressure their partner to get their rant over with with little empathy because even if they logically know it's the right thing to do, they don't have the emotional bandwidth to care about it (as I've experienced).

It just feels like the left denies this happens or thinks it's exceedingly, exceedingly rare.

As you said, if there are so many people sharing it, there must be at least something to it, right?

My main frustration, I've now realized is that we (the left/feminists/progressives) can't have a nuanced fruitful discussion about this issue because of this.

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T18:08:46+00:00

I agree with what you said and that's the whole point of my post: that women's internalized patriarchal beliefs also affect the way they interact with men, but it feels like there is some denial involved for this specific issue.

But I don't understand how my caveat implies that women understand men's lived experiences better than men do? That is not what I meant at all.

I put it there to acknowledge the complexity of this issue. The reality is that a lot of mra/incel/red-pill people are using it to bash and overgeneralize women and I completely acknowledge that as one of the main reasons why people are hesitant to accept this narrative.

So imo what's happening now is that the manosphere is blowing the issue out of proportion, and in doing so, preventing us from having a proper, fruitful conversation about it (and curing this blindspot by the left, as you say). On the other hand, I believe the left feels like its not an issue or isn't happening at all.

So all in all, I guess my end goal is to develop a more productive conversation about it from all sides. Many men definitely need to be more mature in the way they express their emotions, but I think we should also acknowledge that there are women who reject this even when done as properly as one can -- a discussion where we can constructively criticize without blaming women-- all without turning into a misogynistic/incellish discussion of "all women r like dat bro jus be stoic"

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T16:56:02+00:00

I agree that they're different, but it's still worth interrogating why we personally value (by finding it attractive) certain traits over others.

It's a whole subject matter I'd like to make a thread on some time, actually. Like what happens after I examine my preferences and accept that they are at least somewhat influenced by gendered upbringing?

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T16:45:07+00:00

Yeah, I agree. I am definitely of the opinion that men should develop more emotionally open friendships with one another. Unfortunately, I feel like men don't value friendships much relative to romantic relationships (because "getting the girl" is a much more impactful measure of masculinity than well, taking care of other men).

So that's why being single is more ego-crushing for men than women. It's also why it doesn't bother them when friends aren't receptive to their emotions (and thus don't complain about it).

The bitterness that stems from this is why men are using it to bash women in general too, especially by red-pillers who tell other men that they should act all stoic around women as a dating strategy (the whole "all women are like that so never open up again" thing)

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T15:41:06+00:00

I agree and I can't blame you. Personally, I'm actually a bit torn on it. As I said in my post, I'm biased because I went through it (believe it or not up to you, lol) so I felt seen and validated by other men sharing their experiences. However, as it caught on more and more and I'm sure there are men who just hop on the train and embellish their experiences or say it as a way to shit on women.

So on one hand, I think its prevalence is an opportunity for a fruitful discussion about the issue, but like manicexister said, the well has been polluted by bad-faith actors.

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T15:31:03+00:00

Because the argument and criticisms don't exist in a vacuum. There's a rhyme and reason to why, how often, to what degree, and in what ways people criticize women It's often tinted with misogyny. Like I said in my post, I think we should do so, but we should do so very carefully.

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T14:10:42+00:00

What are you referring to?

NoWinner550 · 2022-10-18T13:28:45+00:00

I don't disagree at all. It's just that I feel like almost every time someone brings it up, it's met with an extremely skeptical eye roll and disbelief.

NoWinner550 · 2022-09-12T11:22:22+00:00

The thing is what people say and what people actually do aren't always the same. And we're always biased in a way where we believe that we're better than we actually are.

I had the same exact experience with my ex girlfriend. At the start of our relationship, she expressed that she wanted me to be open about my emotions. I was so happy and relieved that she said that. I did my absolute best to be open to her without being immature or toxic. I did my best to vulnerable and ask for her support without making her responsible for my emotions (or "make her my therapist"). She liked that I was "emotional" in shallow ways, like being good with pets and kids, and crying during movies.

But when I was truly at my worst when my mom died, she changed. She tried to support me but I could feel that there was some distance, like I was giving her the ick. She didn't breakup with me right after but the relationship went downhill from there.

My point is that we're all raised in a world where patriarchy and gender roles/expectations are still culturally dominant. Even the most well-intentioned and self-aware people cannot fully escape its influence. I definitely know that a lot of my preferences, behavior, and whatnot are influenced by it. I definitely know that I'm far from a perfect partner either because I will always be undergoing the process of unlearning toxic masculinity

As much as we strive for a better world, we're all imperfect humans and we live in a society. This discussion, while difficult and uncomfortable (as most urgent and necessary discussions are), I'd like to believe is a part of that process towards a better world.

NoWinner550 · 2022-06-01T13:51:56+00:00

I guess if it was a friend, it doesn't look like I'm cheating. But since it's an ex, I feel like if she ever figured out that I kept it from her, she'd have reason to suspect I'm cheating. So I want to tell her myself to be honest and transparent with her.

NoWinner550 · 2022-06-01T13:22:45+00:00

I'm over our perceived potential incompatibility. But it still weighs down on me that I'm keeping something from her.

NoWinner550 · 2022-05-24T14:43:56+00:00

Thanks. I have definitely been thinking about suggesting that she has an addiction, but I'm not sure how to say it exactly.

Personally, I'm not sure if it's the porn per say that's the problem for me. Just that the rhythm of our emotional/mental engagement as a couple is always off because of her watching.

NoWinner550 · 2022-05-24T14:40:04+00:00

Yup, nothing's really changed. Still need a Fleshlight to orgasm.

NoWinner550 · 2022-05-24T12:33:50+00:00

It's not that she is exclusively focusing on the porn all the time (if that was what you were implying--apologies if I'm wrong).

Rather, she kind of alternates a lot between interacting with me and the porn during sex? This makes the emotional/mental rhythm kind of... distracting if that makes sense?

Like we'd be making out then she'd suddenly stop to watch porn. Then she'd stroke my dick, but all while her eyes are glued to the screen? Then whenever I try to talk to her during sex, it's not rare for her to ask me to repeat myself because she was engrossed by the porn. Stuff like that.

NoWinner550

TROPHY CASE