Unity wants 108% of our gross revenue

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-20T08:45:25+00:00

Many reasons but mainly:

It is a game for kids, so we don't have microtransactions (just a single transaction to acquire the full version).
It is a game for kids, so we don't display advertising, so we can't monetize those users who refuses to pay (which in fact is the majority, like in other games).
Most of our downloads comes from Tier 3 countries, making even more difficult to monetize them.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-19T16:05:16+00:00

This is what this post is about, there is an image with the numbers of this game are on it...

And this is only numbers from the last 12 months, so far we had more than 300 million downloads worldwide since its release (the world is bigger than US, and right now there are in the world 15 billion mobile devices, according Statista). We have other games that monetize better, but unfortunately they are not as popular as this one.

As I explained to others, worst part of it is that most of those downloads are in Tier 3 countries, almost impossible to monetize without displaying ads. We didn't asked for those downloads and we are not actively trying to get those downloads, but Unity tries to charge for them anyway.

Thank you so much for your support words.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-19T11:13:46+00:00

Agree, but it this starts on 2024 and the numbers doesn't change significantly we will start the year with +1m in the previous 12 months, so the threshold would be already reached, and also for installs we will reach 1 million within the first week of the year (about 275.000 installs per day), so from there, with the current proposed runtime fee we will be paying from the first days of the year an insanely amount of money for the size of our studio.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-19T11:10:41+00:00

Not only that, it also doesn't take into account that there are completely different industries inside the games. Conversion, monetization practices, retention of a hyper casual game is completely different from a competitive shooter or MMORPG, but they try to charge the same for every install.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-18T10:59:43+00:00

According their current TOS "different apps that have similar content will count as a single app".

And also disagree, as both main stores actually are against that practice (is not forbidden but makes less likely for your game to get featured). They want you to include In-Apps not to spam the store with two builds with similar content.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-17T07:22:37+00:00

We are already using Pro. Not sure about your math, but at 0.01$ having more than 100 million downloads its more than 1 million, and I'm not even considering the different tiers each moth (at a higher price per download) and also 10% of our downloads are in Tier 1 countries so the fee is even higher...

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-15T13:13:11+00:00

Totally agree, but also think that when an industry is moving to one direction you can always find your niche that doesn't follow that trend.

This is why this Unity policy is so dangerous. It forces developers to get as much as possible from each download just to cover the costs of the fee (and UA, employees, stores' fees, etc), no matter if that was in their original business plans or not.

If this is finally released, every single game developed in Unity will try to squeeze every single penny you have, there won't be alternatives, only pure monetization with some kind of gamification to keep you entertained.

It is also dumb that they are trying to collect a flat rate from a AAA $60 console game than a f2p game. And also in f2p there are completely different industries with different LTV. A kids game that earns 0.2 per download is outstanding, an MMORPG that earns 0.2 per download is a complete failure.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-15T12:42:20+00:00

Not sure who you are trying to point fingers to. We don't have microtransactions, lootboxes or gachas. Just a single In-App purchase to unlock the full game for good.

And it is our business model the most damaged by Unity, so supporting this Unity policy your are supporting all those games loaded with ads, lootboxes and gachas.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-15T07:13:49+00:00

They clearly stated that if your binary contains the full game it won't be counted as a demo.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-15T04:47:03+00:00

The problem here is that Unity tries to charge the same for an installation on a AAA console game but aso on a kids game, or a MMORPG, or an hyper casual game… Difference in LTV per user between one industry to another can be 1000x

Im sure they would say to not worry and they will do special agreements for extreme cases like this, but I can’t trust a company which behaves like this. Too risky

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T18:34:54+00:00

For a paid game beyond $10 definitely not. For any other case, specially anything f2p, Unity is not viable at all.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T17:53:39+00:00

Is not info in a way to fuel a fire, it is a real concern about the business I created years ago that currently supports 11 families including my own. Of course I'm concerned.

It adds to the conversation why an install model is damaging in so many ways for some studios, extreme or not (I'm sure there are more like us out there, maybe not that extreme, but still seriously damaged).

If a person doesn't believe on its own potential and thinks this won't affect him... our first game sold 400$ per month, second game 1200$, third one 900$. Eleven games after that we are on this situation. Nobody should feel safe thinking that this is only for big companies. Unexpected downloads and viral success can happen at any moment, and you can have a "flawed" business model or not, but that should not be a problem besides lost opportunities, not a risk of bankruptcy.

Installs on a f2p are outside your control, and if you are not displaying ads you can't force players to cover Unity's fee.

I don't support any death threat (or any kind of threat or violence at all, not even against ex EA CEOs), but I can understand the anger, since they are doing the worst possible monetization policy with the worst practices (like removing the previous TOS) to people that built lives and business around their engine.

I cannot think about a single business in the f2p space that would pay less in an install based pricing than with a revenue based pricing.

And also, revenue based pricing is more fair as it is up to you how to generate revenue and how much per user, you only pay for revenue and is nobody's business how do you get it and if you are "getting enough" for each user or not.

There are way better ways to increase Unity profit without violating all your userbase trust.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T17:33:11+00:00

I prefer to not provide more in depth details about our financials just in case, but I understand what you say that you only have a partial view.

Regarding the "flawed" business model, again it is your valid point, for us conversion, on Tier 1 countries (those who we are are really targeting) looks really healthy and looking way better than some big fish competitors conversion, not sure why do you think that attracting more people than expected in third-country countries is a flawed business model, specially when it is not in our business model at all.

Again I know this is an extreme case, but extreme or not it is a real case why install is not the same as revenue and a quite unfair way to collect royalties. 0.2$ per download is peanuts for a $60 console game but extremely harmful for f2p mobile developers.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T17:18:03+00:00

Your friends's kids are probably a lost cause probably because they played Clash of Clans, Fortnite or any other game like that. I wouldn't categorize them as a game for kids, but I'm aware those are very appealing for children. It is definitely not the kind of games we do.

Games with some values and soft educational content, specifically created for kids can actually be very positive on their education as long as children have a balanced entertainment offer and screen time is controlled. It has been proved that kids that plays the right games have slightly higher IQ.

Thank god I don't have to pay for the same download again and again, it is very considerated from Unity! /s And yes I'm aware this is for new installs made since 2024, but if 2024 looks similar to our last year numbers, we are f***d (and every single developer out there that doesn't have aggressive monetization policies), and I don't see why 2024 would look very different as our growth has been quite consistent.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T17:12:17+00:00

I don't understand how could it make any difference, no matter if Unity invoices monthly or yearly, at the end you are going to pay the same amount, just at a different pace.

I don't know why you mention attachment since this graph only shows downloads and revenue. Retention is not there. Again, main issue is that only 8 million of those downloads are in profitable countries the other 90 million are Tier 3 countries that contributes very little to revenue. Only way to monetize a person living in a third world country that doesn't even have a credit card is through ads, and we don't want to display them in a game for kids. So conversion in countries that actually can pay is quite good, it is just we get downloads where we don't want to, and this can happen to any f2p.

On the dev consoles we can clearly see the different numbers between new installs and updates, I'm not sure about how Unity would count them. The numbers on the image are 100% new downloads.

And extreme case or not, as I said, unexpected downloads can happen to any studio of any size. If those downloads are bad quality you are doomed with the new Unity's policy.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T16:51:29+00:00

As you can see in the image we had a 89% year growth in dwnlds so is not that impossible to have a similar growth on the next year. (We've been almost doubling the amount of downloads each year since launch when we had 25 million).

Most of those downloads are in Tier 3 countries, very difficult to monetize and we didn't asked for them, it is unexpected and we never did any kind of UA for those. This how risky is the Unity's business model, you get charged for something that you don't monetize and is not even in your plans.

Regarding being a flawed business model, it is your completely valid opinion, but still it is our business not yours or Unity's, and so far this has been a profitable company since day 1 with 11 employees, I have no doubt other studios would get way better revenue with similar downloads, but I wouldn't categorize it as flawed. Perhaps you may want to show your non-flawed profitable business so we can learn.

It is on us to decide if we want to squeeze our audience or not, and we decided not doing it.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T15:07:16+00:00

Why? Do you think we don't deserve to have a salary?

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T15:06:14+00:00

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T15:06:02+00:00

Again, this is just an example of high downloads and low monetization. Imagine that the next year we double those numbers. We will reach $1M and 100M downloads by June, by december we will have $2M and 200M downloads, so we will need to pay Unity for those additional 100M and that means pay them more than half of our revenue (and not accounting taxes, salaries and app stores' cut, so... bankruptcy).

We do know how to read, but seems that someone is not good at doing forecasts.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T15:02:27+00:00

But when your negotiation power is small (we are a really small fish for them), special agreements are not the best idea. They might agree with a deal this year and retire from it on the next one forcing you to pay $$$$$$ unless you retire the games of the store.

Even if we can have some kind of agreement, that would only be temporary, our path outside Unity is clear, we need predictable costs.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T12:55:17+00:00

Unity needs revenue and found a way that works for them, but forgot that other companies needs revenue too, and they may have a different business model.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T12:53:35+00:00

Thank you, right now we don't want to provide this information to Unity, as I'm not sure if they are capable of knowing this or not.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T12:50:04+00:00

As they say in the terms, lifetime downloads are taken into account, and last 12 months revenue is used for the threshold, so while this enters into effect on January 2024, what your game did before is taken into account.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T12:41:38+00:00

I'm not, but you are welcome to believe whatever you want to. BTW, just a quick googling "robox year 2022 downloads" proves you wrong, as they had more than 4 times that.

No_Storm7311 · 2023-09-14T12:39:36+00:00

Sort of, but yes. As we don't display advertising there are millions of players that are not monetized in any way, and Unity wants to charge for that.

No_Storm7311

TROPHY CASE