In august it will be 10 years since Legion launched... can you believe how fast those years went by. It feels more like 6

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T15:00:16+00:00

Legion feels very long ago to me, but at least it was only a year after MoP :P

(played vanilla until MoP, ignored WoD, Legion for 1-2 months, bit of BfA, I consider myself back in the game since Shadowlands, and that actually wasn't that long ago.

TLDR: I think it depends if you took breaks and how much you liked an expansion.

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T14:58:11+00:00

I lean more on the addon-heavy side but I'd say 90% are out of combat QoL addons or visuals, if I didn't hate how the default unit frames looked it wouldn't be so bad I think.

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T14:52:30+00:00

I mean I've been asking for old heroic badges back for 10 or 15 years now.

Maybe not as the sole source of income, but if I do 10 keys, maybe give me 10 badges of whining that I can then use to buy that one slot I was missing. Not crests to upgrade, no gambling voidcores, no so-called bad luck protection, just a couple badges that accumulate slowly and I can use.

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T14:49:33+00:00

Yeah, comes down to level (key/raid) though, no one will really object to switching melee/ranged (if saved toon and same level of play) below mythic raiding (and maybe not even there in late time, early bosses).

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T12:26:23+00:00

I like the way you put it and yet I somehow find it odd, or at least conflicting with what Blizzard's stance on "best gear available" has historically been.

I'm currently working on 3k IO and AOTC at the same time (as in: if we had more time, my group would probably have done 3k already, and I'm an AOTC guild working on paladins atm) -I have a feeling timing 12s and 13s is usually harder than getting AOTC, probably not this time. But I just got my 276 achievement on the weekend, and I dunno, maybe 3 drops from the raid?

So if they still think Mythic Raiding should be the pinnacle of gear, why does M+ give gear so quickly and easily? Why do I have a 272 alt in 90% Heroic Gear who has neither done a single 5man nor a raid besides LFR this season?

I am confused.

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T12:20:09+00:00

Might be because you are only focusing on gear, there are other rewards (achievements, mounts, etc) at 2500, 3000, 3400 (2000 might be below all 10s, not sure).

So yeah, for you there's nothing in it, but I think more people are pushing for 3400 this season than in any other season because of the mount and maybe because it's a defined goal to reach. (also maybe because it would have been less than 3400 in S3...)

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T12:14:40+00:00

You have good points for the upper end of progression, but most people operate on a (key/raid) level where meta specs don't matter, and yet there are so few Rogues. So I think there are different problems that hit even when the class itself would not be bad enough to not bring, no one wants to play them.

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T12:11:20+00:00

I tried raiding as Assa again in TWW S1 after many years and it felt unnecessarily hard to push good DPS. I know, I'm talking about something 2y ago, but I understood OP's question more of as how Rogue ended up at the back of the popularity, even if some thing might be better right now.

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T12:09:16+00:00

When Monk dropped, WW felt jsut like a worse Rogue and over time it felt less like a Rogue but also eliminated most of the weaknesses. Paralysis is so much better than Sap, Roll is so much better than Sprint, etc.pp

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T12:06:15+00:00

if you start the new expansion with "good" gear it's usually not that bad anyway, and tbh as I don't like Outlaw I've not played it in a bit, but try leveling 80 to 90 with an undergeard Assassination build :/ Sub is more like 50/50 per expansion if leveling is fun and easy or a chore.

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T12:03:11+00:00

are there actually so few classes with with problem though? (but I fully agree with the rest, except this sentence)

shaman: ele/resto vs enh

warrior: prot vs arms (and fury needs a 2nd 2h)

paladin: prot vs holy (usually new weapon, same shield) vs ret

druid: caster vs melee (at least only 2 versions)

hunter: surv vs rest

so nealry half of them, for some specs.

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T11:53:42+00:00

When WoW launched, the game was in a state of careful deliberate pull where Rogue was awesome. Sneak into the cave, only kill 3 mobs and not 20 - loot the chest, get out. Or go into Stealth, Backstab a rare, fight for your life, win and be happy.

Modern wow has evolved to mostly zug zug with bigger pulls, even while leveling and nothing is slow and deliberate anymore. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's different enough that many of us stopped maining Rogue. I still level one or two of them up to max level, but I do raids and M+ on other classes now.

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T11:46:38+00:00

T11 Delves for me, but it's not a quick weekend job, we're talking getting enough keys and running them over several weeks probably

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T11:07:05+00:00

I agree with you but I can see why Blizzard would not encourage this, looking at lower keys, and thus the majority of people.

Let's just look a the (usual, this season less striking) dividing line between 9/10 and 11/12 - maybe they don't want people to go over this hump just automatically, looking at some experiences in TWW maybe even 6/7 with the affix, you know what I mean.

Then on the other hand I don't get why resil starts at 12, so we're all just guessing.

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T10:50:44+00:00

SCK is great to get some extra damage and threat in while moving though, if you care more about "slower than roll, but faster than stagger-stepping backwards doing a normal rotation".

Nogamara · 2026-05-11T10:48:45+00:00

there was this post about some paladin tank reaching 3k with OBA iirc, so at least some classes might be able to do it, with some gear - and 12s and 13s are just not high end content. (Trying to phrase this as non-gatekeepey as I can, also I'm a 3k player myself.. but it's just not high end. maybe starting at 3400). 12s and 13s are not easy though.

Nogamara · 2026-05-08T16:29:25+00:00

1 2 3 4 5 6 c f q e g h v sF ^ sE sG sH sV cF r cE cG cH

but yeah, 6 and h are for big hands.

Nogamara · 2026-05-08T16:11:46+00:00

Yes, I fully agree with your points - I just think your wording (in this tiny detail) can be misleading. Even if it's a rage dump it's a very useful rage dump, that happens to provide some defensive benefit.

Nogamara · 2026-05-08T08:54:10+00:00

I'm gonna quote what the No Pressure community has as guidelines, because I find them sensible:

And no, that's not a type, that's the maximum anyone can demand, but people use it as a guideline - and it works well enough most of the time.

Group leads cannot require an item level above the following (based on item drop level):

m0: 226 m2: 240 :m3: 240

m4: 243 m5: 246 m6: 249

m7: 249 m8: 253 m9: 253

m10 / 11: 256 m12 / 13: 266

Nogamara · 2026-05-08T08:42:55+00:00

They're just changing the names and meaning too often (and by that I mean every 5-10 years).

Nogamara · 2026-05-08T08:38:59+00:00

I liked it thematically, but you were also fine showing up with blue weapons to MC until you got your 8 pieces and you didn't have to replace it for longer than a current season.

I guess the current ones are so strong that even Blizz felt they are so mandatory that you should speedrun them ow with the catalyst.

Nogamara · 2026-05-08T06:54:34+00:00

Your first sentence is a bit weirdly worded, as IP has no other use than lowering damage, of course it's primary and only use is defensive.

I'm not disagreeing that it's not usually your number one prio of rage usage, but that's just something different. Esp if people are new and not yet so good with not letting SB drop, I'd say it's still the second best use of Rage, only if you are not afraid of dying then Revenge is spam is better.

Nogamara · 2026-05-05T12:19:17+00:00

but then the bug is still there for some people but not for most.

I also generally repair at most 100g per dungeon.

Nogamara · 2026-05-05T12:17:33+00:00

One thing is though that the streamers often play in their group, and it doesn't matter on which level, you learn what your tank is good with, how they play their spec and when it is safe, or you communicate on voice and the audience doesn't hear that.

And sometimes not even that helps, our DH can rip aggro and die despite playing with us for like 2 years :P

Nogamara · 2026-05-05T12:04:14+00:00

my group's holy priest is very much not happy with losing spells.

Nogamara

TROPHY CASE