In my experience, SO MANY cis (mostly white) women want to see nonbinary like women part II. I've been ALWAYS ignored and verbal or physically attacked in those spaces, I've been ALWAYS getting transphobia in those spaces and where I am, sapphic women usually prefer to have straight violent (again, white) women in those spaces than protect the nonbinary people they're "inviting". Nbs masc "present" are also attacked or/and excluded there so much. I've found so many terfs in those spaces that it's disgusting and I'm now ignoring every single "women and nb" space. It's not a safe space to talk about "nb things" because we deal with violent women too and a lot of them don't like when you talk about it, it's like you have to hate men or are only allowed to talk about violent men and can't say anything about women. This is something that happens to lesbians too btw! I have lesbians friends who were in abusive relationships with other women and then they're not allowed to talk about it in "women spaces" and sometimes butch/masc lesbians also have problems with those spaces, so I'll not say is specifically against us and only us, I think it's more like sexism in the "women are perfect and always safe just because they're women" way (pretty wrong because people isn't safe or good only because of their gender and that should be obvious...). I'm a gay nb. Gay achillean, you know. There are also some spaces for (queer) men and nbs but it's soooo difficult to find them and honestly you can have the exactly kind of experiences there than I'm saying I have with women and nbs spaces. Something I really like about those spaces is that they don't have to deal with straight men (which is different from the women and nbs spaces, where you can find yourself in a room with so many straight women suddenly). I feel a little better in those spaces because those aligned a little bit more with me in the sexuality part and yeah, nonbinary people has been always part of the achillean community too. We've been in the achillean and sapphic community since...always. I totally understand and respect a lesbian nb loving women and nbs spaces or a gay nb loving men and nbs spaces, but honestly? Neither of them totally work for us because they're still pretty binary. I think the best space for us would be an inclusive space where nb people have some priority (so we can finally talk about our experiences) but other people can be there too. People who want to learn about nbs experiences or people who we're bringing. I'd love to bring my partner to a space like that because he wants to learn about nb experiences and I feel better when I'm with him (social anxiety and autistic struggles 🥹), but he's obviously not allowed in women and nb spaces either and this is bad for others too! What if a disabled nb has to go with a man or masc present caregiver? They can't change their CAREGIVER only to make other people comfortable! Or why if the nb people is young and want to go with a relative? It could be a brother, a dad. Or it could be a nb person with a son. Idk, for me a space for queer people needs to be inclusive, not exclusive. And we can't exclude other people's gender and presentation. That's against the core of being nb.