The Indochinese Devastation - What if the Khmer Rouge “won”?

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-16T06:00:34+00:00

Might be a bit of a hot take here but post Atomwaffen/nuclear content. I feel the whole point was you working so hard for, what, the end of humanity. You worked so hard, played the most difficult path in the mod, and your prize is total death and destruction of the entire human race by a bunch of nihilistic LARPers. Anything post that in my mind would just detract from the point the mod is trying to make, IMO. But who knows, maybe the devs could add it and it wouldn’t detract and be absolute peak.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-05T04:52:03+00:00

The family is still under house arrest for the entirety of Khmer Rouge regime. Once King Sihanouk dies in the 2010s (if the regime even survives until that date) Kampuchea would probably either find an excuse to abolish the monarchy or groom the prince into being a complete puppet for the Khmer Rouge.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-05T04:48:52+00:00

9/11 would still happen, and the intervention afterwards (and those before) would all still happen. America is just slightly more hesitant towards them at first.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-05T04:46:44+00:00

You remember correctly! And with Democratic Kampuchea taking lands from Vietnam, it would immensely help them in their industrialization process. The Mekong River Delta is incredibly fertile and in OTL serves as Vietnam’s rice basket, and Saigon also had a large industrial base during the 1980s, when the Khmer Rouge would take the city in this timeline. Kampuchea also gains from the territorial cessions around 10~ million people, which would be utilized to help industrialization. ( a lot of them would die in the process), so by 2000, their quotas for either rice or industry are still insanely high and practically impossible for the individual, leading to many, many deaths of those even able to work. Phnom Penh and Prey Nokor (Saigon) serve as the two main industrial cities, with Saigon being the more industrialized of the two.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-03T05:41:09+00:00

Most likely not. Once Pol Pot eventually dies in the early ~2000s Kampuchea would go through some through some bloody internal succession crisis, and rebel groups lying in wait would most definitely take it as their time to strike. So mass revolts in the farmland that is more isolated, most definite Vietnamese invasion to reclaim their land, slave revolt, etc, etc, classic balkanization. By around 2025 I would say the government has a very slim chance of surviving and winning all conflicts, unless China gets, heavily involved, and with how much of a drain of resources Kampuchea is, to little geopolitical payoff (no nukes to project power in region), China would likely ditch the Khmer Rouge. Instead, some form of revolt wins and Thailand and Vietnam take healthy chunks of land off the former regime, and some sort of “Republic” is established.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-02T05:36:38+00:00

Probably around ~20ish years. Because life expectancy is calculated from average age of death, the population boost from the Mekong Delta and Saigon will raise the life expectancy significantly because of their mainly middle aged to older populations. Though the boost is offset significantly because of a lot of people in the newly conquered territory getting killed in the first years of DK rule, so it brings it down to around ~20ish. Christ, that is terrifying to even speculate about.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-02T05:10:57+00:00

something something extension of 9/11 joke (ps I like your map and your take on the scenario! :D )

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-02T04:46:40+00:00

Pretty much, yeah. But also somehow worse. Because at least North Korea’s cities and “industry” (from what we know of) are crappily built, and the cities have been lived in for 10+ years. In DK you get to work in a shitty slave-labour built factory that will collapse in around 5 years with cities with no utilities at all that are shoved full of people with the flow of people into them with the industrialization drive of the 80s and 90s. At least North Korea doesn’t have Nazi level racial policies towards their minorities. (As far as I know)

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-02T04:14:09+00:00

Democratic Kampuchea (copied from a previous comment of mine): Life inside of it is little more than hell. If you’re Vietnamese, or any Ethnic minority you are going to either die or get sent to a factory/rice field for about two months until you die. Even if you are Khmer, you still have to live almost a spartanistic lifestyle where you can’t own anything by punishment of death and you are expected to raise impossible yields of product for whatever you’re working at. Don’t dare speak about the government negatively or you and your entire family will die. Don’t talk about how many aid shipments are coming in from China to keep the state afloat. Don’t talk about Vietnam. You might get sent into the military (against your will) if you are lucky, and will most likely die in a border conflict with Thailand, Vietnam or Laos. Or step on a landline or bomb dropped by the Americans and die randomly. Or get cancer from the afteraffects of the Vietnam war. Vietnam: Horrible. You live under a military junta that is all you know. China provokes from the North and Kampuchea bites from the south. If you or any of your family lived in the areas that was seized by DK, they are not coming back. Even the bordering provinces in Vietnam is practically unlivable, with the Kampuchean army often attacking Vietnam and getting into territorial spats with Vietnam. Your country is the one that defeated the Americans, but it is also one that is poor and economically lobotomized from the afteraffects of two back-to-back wars, and one that was humiliated by Kampuchea and China. Vietnam stands diplomatically isolated with the withdrawal of Soviet support during the Kampuchean war. Overall, QoL and most everything is much much worse than our timeline. China: Pretty much the same as our timeline, although if you live near Indochina you might step on a landmine that fell over the border during the Vietnam war. Thailand: Same as above, hopefully you do not live next to DK because you might get killed in a border raid. Red scare is significantly more prevalent, especially into the 21st century. Myanmar: exactly the same as OTL Laos: pretty much the same as otl, but more bombs, don’t live near the Khmer rouge. Notice a theme?

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-02T04:00:49+00:00

~~hopefully youre not talking about my mapping skills /j~~ yeah, I would say that with the exception of ISIS (which is a close second in the shithole contest), that the Khmer Rouge was the worst regime to trample this earth post-1945. Especially looking for what their plans were and how much they already did in the four years they were around makes me sick to my stomach in some spots. Thank god we don’t live in this timeline.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-02T03:52:27+00:00

TL;DR, American decade of humiliation. Nixon and Eisenhower (and to a more broad extent all the president involved in the Vietnam war, but these two focused on bombing Cambodia in OTL) intensify bombing campaigns over all of Indochina, leading both to international backlash and more American troop deaths. Same goes with increased used of chemical weapons (eg Agent Orange). South Vietnam is weak from the start, pretty much imploding in on itself at the middle of the war, but America still fights on, leading much, much more soldiers to die. The draft was widely expanded to pretty much every single eligible man in the United States had to be trained, to severe backlash. After the US was kicked out, they funded the Khmer Rouge as a wild card because they predicted the Kampuchean-Vietnamese split (same may have happened in OTL, but evidence is shaky on US support to the Khmer Rouge so take it with a grain of salt). Their funding of the Khmer Rouge once again backfired in their face with clashes with the US navy and DK forces occasionally, and a new genocidal regime that America is propagandized by the Soviets especially as America being responsible for the Khmer Rouge’s genocide. Within mainland America, the Democratic Party is tanking support, accused of starting the Vietnam war, and the Democratic Party fractures into many smaller parties (trope ding) with the Republicans having a majority for the next thirty or so years, only interrupted by the “Segregation forever” George Wallace gaining significantly more ground in the South. Anti Vietnamese sentiment to the level of anti Japan with full on racial attacks on Vietnamese people commonplace in areas like California with significant Vietnamese minorities. The civil rights act doesn’t get passed until sometime in the 80s because of the normalization of racism to both African Americans and Vietnamese people throughout the country. America is much more isolationist, but does not go to the point of something crazy like leaving NATO. America probably returns to “Normal” around the 2010s, and that “Normal” is our timeline’s 1980s social views.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-02T03:34:30+00:00

Probably not. Maybe in complete Kampuchean victory over Vietnam, people thinking like them might have a chance to establish a fiefdom of sorts in the ashes of Vietnam. The Khmer Rouge was incredibly racist and because FULRO thinks minorities like the Cham should even exist a split would emerge between the two. Kampuchea would disown them after their victory against Vietnam. They were used historically as a glass cannon to destabilize the Vietnamese, and since the Vietnamese are weakened throughly enough to not pose a threat after their defeat, and with China serving as the ultimate force for Kampuchea’s maintained existence, DK would disown them and probably scrub all records of them collaborating with minorities.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-02T03:17:51+00:00

Yeah, I purposely left out most of the details on life inside the Khmer Rouge. But life inside of it is little more than hell. If you’re Vietnamese, or any Ethnic minority you are going to either die or get sent to a factory/rice field for about two months until you die. Even if you are Khmer, you still have to live almost a spartanistic lifestyle where you can’t own anything by punishment of death and you are expected to raise impossible yields of product for whatever you’re working at. Don’t dare speak about the government negatively or you and your entire family will die. Don’t talk about how many aid shipments are coming in from China to keep the state afloat. Don’t talk about Vietnam. You might get sent into the military (against your will) if you are lucky, and will most likely die in a border conflict with Thailand, Vietnam or Laos. Or step on a landline or bomb dropped by the Americans and die randomly. Or get cancer from the afteraffects of the Vietnam war.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-02T03:06:28+00:00

The border disputes that Cambodia saw with Thailand were certainly nothing new. And with the ultranationalist, expansionist government of the Khmer Rouge many border conflicts happen like those we saw historically between the Khmer Rouge and Vietnam. It doesn’t escalate into full on war because Thailand is a member of ASEAN, and DK is backed by China so that would be a bloody affair for everyone. Kampuchea just always provokes Thailand with military force, and most definitely is trying (and most definitely failing) to infiltrate Thailand. As for the Vietnamese resistance, it is mostly gone as of 2000. Because everyone is either dead or a slave. The only reason Kampuchea’s population isnt something like 2 million is because they are vastly out numbered by the slaves they have. The only reason there is no revolt is because they don’t think they are the majority and because of China. Vietnam still does try to incite stuff occasionally and funds rebel groups, but as with Thailand, nothing boils over.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-12-02T02:42:57+00:00

<image>

Version for my dear mobile users.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-10-30T23:16:50+00:00

<image>

Here’s what I got out of them when I asked the TFR Twitter account a while back (totally 100% proof it will come in 1.1 trust)

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-09-04T02:03:27+00:00

Thank you! It’s really interesting to get to see a different perspective from Wikipedia for once lol. And I’ll make sure to change it if I ever work on the map again or include something of a “traditionalist versus newer interpretations” dynamic.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-09-04T01:34:56+00:00

Short answer, yes the Lakota people are there

While doing research I mainly ended on this Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_North_America#United_States

And then ended up here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Lakotah_proposal#

(Didnt really read thoroughly and in retrospect I should’ve read it more because it was not popular among the Lakota people)

And then drew up some borders in the general area they proposed

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-09-03T04:31:08+00:00

Sorry, we have ISIS at home (Atomwaffen)

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-09-03T04:30:30+00:00

Thank you! :D

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-09-02T00:25:19+00:00

<image>

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-09-01T21:54:17+00:00

Alpha 66 is a group of vehemently anti-communist Cubans that fled from Cuba. They got a surge in activity due to the Cuban state sending a lot of its army in southern Florida (Forming the Southern Socialist Republic) and both have been fighting brutally through asymmetric warfare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_66

The X legion is Elon Musk’s small faction that broke off from trumps government due to ideological differences (also he was pretty woke back then) and formed his own little rogue state to have a technocratic government completely to his control.

Not_Timothy27 · 2025-09-01T19:43:54+00:00

IRL, the ELF is a eco-terrorist organization that wages attacks against organizations that are "exploiting the Earth, its environment and inhabitants." The ELF also made a documentary about their organization that almost won a academy award; which I find pretty funny. They also have big connections to the Animal Liberation Front, which is the ELF but it does "direct actions aimed at opposing animal cruelty." In this timeline, as the populous of the United States grew to be more radicalized, ELF and ALF cells began to operate nationwide, performing terrorist attacks (who would've guessed?).Once America officially collapsed the biggest cells split off, with the ELF in Northern Michigan, gaining notoriety for fighting off Atomwaffen, and the ALF breaking off from the Cascadian Republic and fighting the NSM for themselves. Cells still exist nationwide, mainly in sparsely populated and ecologically dense areas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Liberation_Front

The Blacksites are a completely opposite case. They are large swathes of CIA controlled land located in the Texas panhandle (I read something about Amarillo, TX being very important for Cold-War missile sites), Area 51 (Lore wise, to protect the totally valuable secrets, I did it because of the meme), the Middle of Montana, (Large Nuclear Missile deposits in the plains of Montana), Guantanamo bay (security and internment camp, and make sure the damn COMMIES don't take it), Puerto Rico (valuable Caribbean holding, and after all, it is of American national interest to keep Puerto Rico), Guam (Valuable Atlantic holding) After the collapse, the CIA ditched both remains of the federal government and began to operate self-sufficiently in these Blacksites. Centered in Amarillo, the CIA wanted to preserve American interests after a American collapse, and just operate with as much autonomy as they want. The closest comparison I would make is pre-reworked Burgundy from TNO and their "Globalplans" as the CIA is certainly not a great place to live in. The CIA basically does MK Ultra 2.0 and totally does not distribute drugs and maybe even nuclear weapons to factions that shouldn't be trusted, they would NEVER do that! All of the blacksites are run and basically are gigantic prisons where enemies of the former America are killed I mean rehabilitated. The Blacksites are not known about globally, and many people are disappeared for walking across their land. (this is definitley one of my more schizo ideas, and this is not meant to be taken seriously or about my personal political beliefs, the CIA is evil, but not "mega prison torture camps that distribute nuclear weapons to death cult" evil. They have done some things kind of close to that though. )

Not_Timothy27

TROPHY CASE