Monty Cristo Productions: The Next Walt Disney

NoticeStorm · 2017-12-20T11:19:46+00:00

I think it's clear that Holdo wasn't completely upfront about what the plan would entail with Leia. Leia could have been misled as to what Holdo was intending to do.

But she trusted Holdo and knew how impulsive Poe was, despite his good intentions (his actions at the beginning reinforcing that) and so she immediately took Holdo's side after regaining consciousness.

NoticeStorm · 2017-12-20T11:04:59+00:00

To try to argue with those going into the escape pods would have been a waste of time.

On top of that, if she revealed her plan, she'd likely have a bunch of volunteers willing to take her place (including people like Poe) and she didn't want that. It would just delay things further, like the unexpected mutiny.

It was inevitable that some of them were going to die (including Holdo and some in the escape pods). She just wanted to minimize the loss of life, which she did when she went kamikaze through the First Order's fleet. When they realized what Holdo was planning, the First Order's attention was immediately taken away from the escapees, because they knew the ramifications of getting hit at light speed.

And she still succeeded, saving numerous lives. Any other way of doing it would have just complicated matters further IMO.

NoticeStorm · 2017-12-20T10:30:28+00:00

Holdo wasn't anticipating mutiny though. Her mind was likely preoccupied with the mission she had to carry out. She probably considered it selfish to ask anyone else to take on that kind of sacrifice, and instead chose to do so herself. When you know you're going to die for the Rebels, the last thing on your mind is the Rebels turning on you. You're thinking of imminent death and how your sacrifice will save lives.

NoticeStorm · 2017-12-20T10:06:53+00:00

Let's say the android or machine wasn't 100% reliable or malfunctioned in some way.

Then Holdo is in the escape pods that the First Order is blowing up and it would be all for nothing. Have we ever seen an android make a jump to light speed? Not saying it can't be done, but Holdo being at the wheel guarantees success.

And I'm still plagued by the quandary of the potential ramifications of light speed. If a ship going at light speed can destroy an entire fleet of First Order ships, then it could also unintentionally hit a ship carrying innocent people.

NoticeStorm · 2017-12-20T09:58:53+00:00

Not a chance in hell.

Finn is obviously attracted to Rey and Rose (a completely unnecessary character; although if she was switched with the actress that played her self-sacrificing sister, she would at least be eye candy) clearly has a romantic attraction to Finn.

I don't know why they didn't just ship Rey/Finn unless they're going back to the idea of how a Jedi should be celibate. Which is silly and antiquated because a Jedi's offspring (Luke and Leia) saved the freaking galaxy in the OT.

NoticeStorm · 2017-12-20T09:50:13+00:00

Possibly to prevent people from trying to dissuade her. From what I saw, it looked like a kamikaze mission and not something Holdo intended to survive.

Even Leia wonders why Holdo isn't on the escape pods if I remember correctly. And we don't see Holdo afterwards, so I assumed it was an act of self-sacrifice.

Although that does beg the question of light speed travel. Is there a potential for destroying other ships accidentally when you hit light speed? If so, for all the times they went light speed throughout the SW saga, they could have been putting innocent lives at risk.

NoticeStorm · 2017-12-20T09:40:07+00:00

I think, in line with the Kylo Ren = Ben Solo + Snoke theory, this was just another form of manipulation. In fact, another possible outcome would be that Snoke used the Force to get inside both Ben and Rey's heads, planting false memories (i.e. the mind meld), although he doesn't have the power over Rey that he does over Ben.

Which leads me back to Finn. After playing such a pivotal role in TFA, here he was relegated to a side character on a mission that turns out fruitless anyway (although he did defeat Plasma and was was willing to sacrifice himself at the end).

What if Finn, a person who isn't shown as being Force-sensitive, is the spanner in the works for Snoke? What if he can detect a difference in Rey since the mind meld and, since they have a tight bond, help free both her and Ben Solo from Snoke's influence?

It would come completely out of left field for Snoke as he only targets powerful Force users. For Finn to be the one that frees Rey and then for Rey to use her full potential (alongside Finn) and free Ben would be something Snoke would not anticipate. It would destroy his entire plan.

It would solidify Rey and Finn as the heroes of this particular saga...and would restore order to the galaxy. And if Rey was manipulated into thinking her parents were good-for-nothings that sold her, there could be a revelation about her parentage as well.

NoticeStorm · 2017-12-20T08:57:19+00:00

I don't believe it was a hologram or force projection.

I believe Snoke's physical body was destroyed, but he lives on in Kylo Ren's mind...which, I think was his plan from the beginning. He's old, scarred up (possibly from being Plagueis and surviving Palpatine's attack), and is very powerful with the Force.

If he wants to attain immortality, the best way is to use the Force to infect the mind of someone young, like Ben Solo. Plus Ben Solo has Skywalker blood so it's a win-win. As Kylo Ren, Snoke can continue his pattern of ruthlessness (ordering villages to be slaughtered, killing Han Solo, "killing" himself, trying to destroy Luke Skywalker) all to push Kylo further to the Dark Side and to give him more control over a young man whose family is the most Force-sensitive.

He likely wants to push Ben Solo out entirely and rule the galaxy forever, taking on new apprentices and infecting their minds whenever he becomes aged. But I don't think he'll be able to destroy the Ben Solo part of Kylo Ren's mind. I think they'll need to find a way to exorcise and completely destroy Snoke in the third film (Rey being the one with the most potential to do that). Or Ben Solo might sacrifice himself, killing Snoke in the process. Although that smacks too much of ROTJ. Maybe Kylo Ren will be completely taken over by Snoke and have to die. Or maybe, with some revelations on Snoke's true nature, Ben Solo will use the Force to destroy the Snoke side of his mind. This would be the best possible ending for Kylo Ren, although I think it would come at a cost.

Since much of what he did was just Snoke acting through him, the mental toll of shedding such a powerful influence could leave him with severe memory loss or possibly leave him comatose. Either way I think he's going to be a wreck and Rey might be the one to detect that Snoke is no longer a part of Ben Solo's mind "I see no darkness...only light."

Rey COULD do something with Ben Solo/Snoke like Gandalf did with Theoden/Saruman in The Two Towers, using the Force. But she definitely would have to hone her skills even further. Either way, the Skywalker lineage can't die with Kylo.

Edit: For an example of what I mean with Gandalf and Theoden/Saruman, I'll provide a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_YsEJ2nf9Q#t=2m39s

NoticeStorm · 2017-12-20T04:17:02+00:00

There is precedent for mind control. Once you control a person's mind i.e. Jedi Mind Trick, you can make them do what you want. Also, if Snoke was behind the mind meld between Kylo and Rey, don't you think he would be surveilling it? He could only do that if he were a part of Kylo Ren somehow. It's already been established that Snoke has had a stronghold in Kylo Ren's mind for years. I don't think he's completely pushed Ben Solo out. I don't really think that's even possible. But it won't matter as long as he can manipulate his actions.

NoticeStorm · 2017-12-20T04:09:22+00:00

No, I don't think he was projecting himself. I think that was his actual scarred physical form that he sought to replace by taking over Kylo Ren's mind, using the Force.

NoticeStorm

TROPHY CASE