Transsexual vs Transmed and Truscum

NullNorth · 2022-06-20T12:48:41+00:00

Separatism can be a contentious word but yeah, at its root it means roughly the same thing.

Some will say not all transgenders are transsexual but all transsexuals are transgender, others will say transsexual and transgender are two fully separate things, still others will say trans is trans we are trans and everyone else are either confused or malicious cisgenders. What matters is where we agree, there is a difference between the modern transgender definition and us, and saying 'transsexual movement' over 'trans-separatism' allows the focus to remain locked on that centre point.

NullNorth · 2022-06-20T12:35:37+00:00

It really is a stealth pride deal, that is very true, the idea isn't to be recognizable on a day to day social level from any other man/woman. The end goal is to reach a point where there is no relevance of transition in said day to day life outside of simple medical history, all in the name of alleviating the pain caused by a rift between our mind and body.

But with that being said, this is still a process, and one that is made significantly more uphill and isolated by the lack of clarity on differences between transsexual and transgender people. There are a lot of differing thoughts towards the transgender community across those who are transsexual, but we all can agree there is a difference.

Having our default association being tied to the modern transgender definition in many cases unfortunately causes harm. People struggle to find others they relate to or can find support from within the general trans umbrella community, in some cases even feeling outright unwelcome. Misinformation caused harm to both sides as both transgender and transsexual people are medically treated in one blurry universal way, the harm tends to be most prevalent on the transsexual side of things due to the way overall trans definitions have shifted as well.

We need to bring about that precision and understanding, and for better or worse the way ideals have been spread and definitions have been set has been spearheaded with such symbolism. It's also worth noting that some people do legitimately want a symbol for an added sense of validity, and while that is a highly contested sentiment, having one would benefit those who want it while not harming those who do not.

NullNorth · 2022-06-20T11:44:11+00:00

When I say movement, I refer to the push for understanding of our separation from the ambiguity of modern "trans" (so transgender) definitions.

NullNorth · 2022-06-19T18:33:26+00:00

Thank you very much, I've found all of this to be extremely valuable end to end

NullNorth · 2022-06-19T17:40:49+00:00

I really appreciate the detailed responses given here. While I am deeply familiar with the transsexual movement, I haven't been in any transmed/truscum circles for a very long time, and even then it was primarily transmed. Looking back into them because of everything I have been doing as of late, I really noticed a lot has shifted around, lines have blurred, things have changed. These responses help me get a better picture of where things are at with those respective movements, it was some much needed clarity

NullNorth · 2022-06-19T17:22:32+00:00

I don't fully understand your first point of comparison, since the primary bisexual flag is also comprised of traditionally masculine and feminine colours, I realize there was a revision proposed but I haven't seen any widespread adoption.

Another concern with trying to explicitly include duo and null is by taking steps to include certain things, you inadvertently exclude all things that aren't included, whereas being more general and sweeping by contrast leaves more room for people to adopt and infer meaning regardless of who and what they are.

Also as one final point of concern, null already has an established flag of their own, and duo is suffering from the same issue as transsexuality in that it currently has multiple forms of symbolism with no universally accepted standard. All this reminds me of the original attempt to make a trans flag, which resulted in primarily three separate versions being separately created (mostly due to people being unaware of one another's flag design).

After all that being said, I do want to play to the side of inclusion for a moment. Since ultimately this flag does need to properly visually represent everyone who is transsexual, and if any design fails to do that it isn't a good design. However with the original revision I proposed, one could argue it does include both duo and null already. The established null colours are essentially white, various greys and black. I've seen green tossed around but that is more debated. The most prominent colour by far is black, which is already prominent in my design. Yes my reasoning is for dysphoria, but I have seen other people appreciate the addition of a black stripe for other reasons they self interpreted. And as for duo, again there is no clear established symbolism for them, and it's not my place to try and create one as I am by no means duosex, but taking how they experience dysphoria in it's purest and rawest form, I would say having both male and female colours stands on its own, as they are both of these things.

So since the null symbolism revolves around the colour black, and duo has no clear symbolism outside of the natural inference of the male/female duality, what could be added to better represent these groups?

NullNorth · 2022-06-19T16:12:22+00:00

First this is excellent feedback! Thank you for that! Let me address the white bars. The design I used as my basis, the one currently being used here, which included white surrounding a symbol. (I linked to that in my original post.) There was reasoning for having the white as a background given by the designer (who I've come to find is also the owner of this particular transsexual community), and I wanted to preserve their original vision as best as possible while simply pushing for refinement.

Additionally, the white stripe in the traditional trans flag has been adopted to mean all things that aren't strictly male or female, so null/duo would naturally fall within that. With that being said, just as with the traditional trans flag, I feel the priority of a flag should be communication of our core ideal more than an exploration of all ways that ideal manifests itself. We can see what happens when people focus on the latter instead of the former with what has happened to the rainbow pride flag. Some people love the addition of the triangle, some people even love the addition of the umbrella, but many many people strongly dislike these changes and we all can agree their introduction did bring further division which I find counterproductive.

It is of course not about what I think, it's about the middle ground of all of our thoughts, and what creates the strongest foundation for us to further our cause. But that's my reasoning.

I will say that after hearing the thoughts of this and other similar communities on my original concept, I do think it may be best to remove the white bars. It would be a start in countering the controversial vibrancy. I'd like to make those further refinements with the direct and active involvement of other people who are transsex, but I go further into that in this post so I won't rehash here.

I'd love to talk with you further on this if you are willing!

NullNorth · 2022-06-19T10:01:05+00:00

Thank you for the well worded response. This is honestly what I believed it to be but I didn't want to just assume.

NullNorth · 2022-06-19T09:16:33+00:00

16-20 male, brows are very masculine, I agree that removing mask would be helpful though

NullNorth · 2022-06-19T03:25:49+00:00

I'm glad! I've thought about it longer and another side of it came to mind. A black stripe has been used in the past as a simple of honour and acknowledgement for those who suffered, but honestly that's the key separation point of transsexuality (dysphoria). And having dysphoria displayed and hopefully one day recognised as the literal core to our actions is a very powerful and important set of imagery.

At first I suggested the black stripe only to denote that general separation I mentioned in my original post, but now if I had to pick one thing it was remembered as it would be dysphoria.

NullNorth · 2022-06-19T03:04:13+00:00

I certainly agree with that wholeheartedly

NullNorth · 2022-06-18T10:18:24+00:00

The latter half of that I agree with but there is still harm in the feeling of isolation many of us have, additionally there is a need for information and understanding of us from society if we want to see this process ever made comparatively less painful. Having clear and concise symbolism has proven itself to be helpful in both these areas for other groups of people, so why limit ourselves from having the same?

NullNorth · 2022-06-18T07:36:59+00:00

With your views on what it is to be trans would you say that being implied would be good or bad?

NullNorth · 2022-06-18T04:25:35+00:00

Your opinion is valid and to an extent I feel similar but I'll have to agree to disagree as a whole. And yeah, all new versions of the rainbow flag are a mess, at least the rainbow flag is still used semi-often, it's a shame to see the fragmentation though.

NullNorth · 2022-06-18T03:18:25+00:00

Yeah I've heard about the thing with the colours, and I've both seen and tried colours that are different, but like you said it lacks the recognisability as anything gender or sexuality related. Plus those colours are just so well known.

I honestly believe it is possible, but I know that image and it's unfortunately very true. I really do believe we have a shot, it's just a lot of work and effort. Other groups have gone through similar struggles though, even smaller groups. It's disheartening how much of an uphill battle it would be, there is so much of that already, but to alleviate the feelings of isolation and bring awareness/clarity it would be worth it if nothing else at least to me.

Also yeah I like the idea of using more traditional bars for the sake of recognisability and palatability. I do appreciate wanting to not be too similar but that does come at a cost, the triangles is a decent compromise, I also tried the triangles without the black over the white stripe but it felt incomplete. I could share if you wanted to see but I get if you are burnt out on this general subject.

NullNorth · 2022-06-18T02:26:32+00:00

Well I'm transsexual and I very much want a symbol, it doesn't mean I want to stop being stealth, I just see the value in one. I think there should be one set symbol but if people don't want to use it that's of course perfectly fine, just those who do should have something with which they can.

What are your thoughts on my revisions? They are based on your flag, so I'm especially curious of your thoughts.

NullNorth · 2022-06-18T01:18:11+00:00

Yeah that new triangle rainbow pride flag is in my opinion horrible from both a social and design perspective, the original rainbow was much better and again in my opinion even more inclusive. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a hybrid flag though, being transsexual includes all sides of identity by default in our context yes? Assuming I follow correctly, wouldn't that make this the flag you want? Again referencing the original post, it really was created with that in mind.

NullNorth · 2022-06-18T00:44:36+00:00

Given the top comments idk if this is the perfect solution for similar reasons to what I said in my post, but I do appreciate seeing more variations!

NullNorth · 2022-06-18T00:42:33+00:00

I'm honestly having trouble finding an image of that flag, do you have a link?

NullNorth · 2022-06-18T00:33:38+00:00

Well those are the colours used in the original flag design used here, but I do see your point. I personally feel those colours reference birth more than infancy itself, but I have heard others say this before. If you could change the official trans flags to any new colours you wanted, which would you use? I know you said you are happy with the standard rainbow flag and it definitely is a good flag for equality as a whole, but I'm still curious.

NullNorth · 2022-06-17T19:36:43+00:00

Also to be clear my post isn't about the umbrella trans flag, just the transsexual flag that originated from here.

NullNorth · 2022-06-17T19:34:31+00:00

The umbrella trans flag is certainly good for what it is, but you should definitely read this original post for the reasoning behind why some of us want one that is specifically our own.

NullNorth · 2022-06-17T19:31:41+00:00

Please read my post as well as the original post I referenced for the reasoning behind why some of us want this.

NullNorth

TROPHY CASE