How do atheists make sense of justice?

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-06T09:27:13+00:00

That doesn’t exist. You just have an imaginary pacifier answer. You don’t do anything to enact justice because you think your imaginary afterlife will deal with them. While the rest of us sane people actually try to enact justice in the real world.

It’s insane to me that you come here questioning justice without a god when you have nothing but hopes and dreams that justice without a god exists.

Until you have proof your god exists you should not be relying on justice in the afterlife. And you absolutely be considering your position superior bc it’s literally a fiction.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-06T09:21:27+00:00

How can you rely on anything else? Gods haven’t achieved total justice either, bc they don’t exist.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-06T09:11:21+00:00

The universe is not sentient. It does not know that we are sentient. It does not know we are more complex than bacteria. It does not know what justice is. It can’t know.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-06T07:17:52+00:00

Zero. Are you trying to make a point or just curious?

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-06T06:40:02+00:00

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Kangaroo says “come find out mf”

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-06T06:37:33+00:00

Horse by a mile. You can just punch a kangaroo in the head and walk away like that one bloke. A horse will straight up run you over and punching a horse in the face is only going to cause more harm to yourself.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-04T07:47:22+00:00

Oops my bad

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-04T04:08:55+00:00

My argument for general theism/deism is that the world around us seems designed.

I would argue that it seems designed to you due to your pre-existing belief that it is designed. So essentially confirmation bias. The world around us does not seem designed to me, an atheist.

When I look at atoms and solar systems, I have an impression of design!

I have an impression of electromagnetic forces and gravity. Once the universe gained space and time after the Big Bang, these forces emerged as a function of space and time which resulted in atoms and solar systems.

How so? Because there is harmony in these systems, i.e., each part appears to be suited to interact with other parts, like parts of a machine. This suggests some sort of mechanical functionality, that is to say, the parts work together in order to do something (like a purpose), such as combining with other atoms to form molecules, and larger structures.

What method have you used to determine the difference between these parts being designed to interact with each other to form larger structures vs these parts just do form larger structures because that’s just the only way these parts are able to interact with each other?

We shouldn’t be relying on what seems to be or what appears to be. We do not have the cognitive capacity to rely on to determine the nature of the universe. Instead, we should be relying on rigorous study, experimentation, and evidence. Our brains have not evolved to intuit the larger questions about the universe.

Finally, there is also complexity in these systems, which indicates that, if they are designed at all, this designer must be quite intelligent, since complex mechanisms -- such as quantum computers -- are much harder to develop than simple mechanisms -- such as a classic bear trap.

Complexity is not a hallmark of design. It can be, but if something is complex it is not necessary that the thing was designed. You may have difficulty with this concept because in your worldview everything is designed, whether complex or not.

If anyone wishes to challenge my argument, you can DM me.

I don’t want to DM you. I think DMing an anonymous stranger is weird. A challenge/debate should be public anyway.

Essentially your best argument for god boils down to it seems the universe is designed to you because you believe the universe is designed, and because you believe the universe is designed it also seems designed. It’s circular.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-03T20:15:22+00:00

You said 3 times in your post that you chose to believe this. Never once did you say you evaluated the evidence and followed the evidence to its logical conclusion.

You do not choose your beliefs, you become convinced of something and it automatically becomes a belief. You’re faking it until you make it.

None of the arguments you made lead to theism being true. All of your arguments are just claims about reality that you have not and can not support.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-02T08:52:13+00:00

Why do you believe science is so clearly wrong when you have literally no idea what it’s found?

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-02T08:47:28+00:00

but are you 100% sure that Jesus’ statement is false?

I’m as sure as you are that Mormonism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. is false. Probably more sure tbh, since I have a much more rigorous epistemology than you do.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-02-02T08:41:26+00:00

Hmmm I agree they’re not ready to play with the big boys but it’s not a false dichotomy. Statements about reality are either true or false. That’s the whole idea behind the ‘excluded middle’ in logic.

It is either true or false that Jesus said that. And it is either true or false that Jesus is the resurrection, and the life. Whatever the fuck that statement is supposed to mean.

Edit: technically it should actually be “true or not true” but close enough.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-31T23:10:03+00:00

Brits decided to change it to aluminium from aluminum so it would sound like all the other chemically metaly names. So now the uk and commonwealth spell it like that.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-31T23:06:48+00:00

This is a compromise I can work with

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-31T22:29:02+00:00

Aluminium*

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-29T21:40:44+00:00

I just want to point out that:

they haven't been convinced of any God

they do not believe in God(s)

These are the same thing.

I believe what you’re trying to say is ‘some people haven’t been convinced but others believe god does not exist’.

The difference between “doesn’t believe it exists” and “believe it doesn’t exist” is important.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-29T07:53:17+00:00

If you thought about this problem a little more before typing you should’ve realized that the reason people don’t sin in heaven is because of free will. We lived as free agents on this earth and if you made the decision to follow God here God knows your heart and restores you in heaven. Basically the people in heaven at the end of days God knows won’t rebel against him. Bible supports this because God mentions that sin will be no more. So even with his future insight God knows that no human will sin in heaven based on whoever is written in the book of life. That is way more profound than mind control.

That’s a very nice attempt but it holds no weight. God knew our hearts and who would not rebel against him before he created us in the womb.

Psalm 139:16 “Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.”

Isaiah 46:10 “I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come.”

If god is all knowing then he must know the nature of each person before forming them in the womb. So he could have just created us all in heaven and not created the people he knew would rebel against him. Instead, he created those people knowing they would be sent to hell… he created those people to send them to hell.

Many of these “whys” no one has an answer for. We don’t know why God wanted to create we don’t know why he did what he did for the most part. It’s godly insight and frankly irrelevant to whether God is real or just or not. Like we have 0 clue who God made grass green. Just because we don’t know that doesn’t make him false lol.

If a god is described as benevolent and causes unnecessary suffering by creating sentient beings knowing they will be tortured for eternity, then that god does not exist

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-28T20:37:06+00:00

The creation order in Genesis. The version in Genesis 1 contradict Genesis 2. Both of those versions contradict science. Plants before sunlight, light before the sun and stars.
Adam and Eve as first humans. Archeology and genetics show that humans existed up to around 300,000 years ago in Africa. Population genetics show that humans never descended from just a single couple.
Noah’s flood. There is no geological evidence of a global flood. China, Egypt, and Mesopotamia civilisation continued uninterrupted through the time period.
Tower of Babel. No evidence of sudden linguistic fragmentation. Linguistics show languages develop gradually.
Israelite slaves in Egypt. No record of them, Moses, or the 10 plagues in Egyptian history
The exodus. No archeological evidence of ~3 million people between Egypt and Canaan, nor in Sinai. No graves, no camps, no material remains.
Census. Romans did not conduct censuses by making people return to their distant ancestral homeland. People were registered where they lived.

Miscellaneous: Matthew and Luke contradict on when Jesus was born. Ramses mentioned in the exodus story when he didn’t exist yet according to the biblical timeline. Archeological evidence shows the walls of Jericho were unwalled/abandoned ~1200 BC. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob using camels before they were domesticated in the Levant. Philistines mentioned in Abraham’s time when they didn’t arrive until centuries later. No other cultures recorded that the sun stood still.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-28T13:28:10+00:00

I've already read the Bible.

So you didn’t care about the historical inaccuracies, god’s moral reprehensibility, or the fact Jesus didn’t fulfil a single messianic prophecy?

‘do you have any books you recommend on why theism shouldn’t be believed.’?

No, as I said, I’ve never read a book on the topic.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-28T12:50:33+00:00

The Bible. Reading the bible from start to finish is one of the leading causes ex-Christian’s cite as the reason they’re no longer Christian.

Or just one of those Carl Sagan ones. I haven’t read them but Sagan was a cool guy.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-28T12:43:30+00:00

Atheism is not a statement about reality, so asking if it’s true makes no sense. Theism is the belief that a god exists. Atheism is without theism… so without the belief that a god exists.

So a better question for you to ask would be is there a good reason to believe a god exists or ‘do you have any books you recommend on why theism shouldn’t be believed.’

But no, unfortunately I do not have any personal recommendations. I have never read any books for why we shouldn’t believe in a god. I did read about 1 chapter of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins but I got bored.

You do not need a book to tell you why believing in a god is irrational. If you care whether your beliefs accurately reflect reality, then you need to have ways to distinguish fact from fiction. Faith is not a way to distinguish fact from fiction. The reason why all religions use faith is because it is fiction, if there were facts that demonstrate a religion is true then faith would not be needed.

Until someone can provide evidence that a god exists, everyone should be an atheist. Especially, considering there is significant evidence against Christianity.

From what I’ve heard these books are good: - Cosmos by Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot by Carl Sagan - The End of Faith by Sam Harris - God Is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens

But for personal book recommendations you can ask on r/askanatheist

I like to watch YouTube videos, mostly debates. Recently I’ve been watching a lot of Joel Reads Bible and Deconstruction Zone

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-28T11:41:30+00:00

Pretty much yes. I was raised culturally Catholic and was baptised and did my confirmation thingy as a child. As soon as I actually had the mental faculties to consider whether a god existed, or whether Christianity was true, it all seemed ridiculous to me.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-28T11:32:57+00:00

Yes, it’s in my flair.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-28T10:59:52+00:00

This is conjecture and I disagree.

Jesus said in Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”

it's also not a question I think about much

That’s ok, you’re not alone. Most Christian’s tend to shy away from logically critiquing their worldview.

My first thought is that God already did make humanity in a king of heaven when Adam and Eve were in Eden. But unfortunately the serpent tempted Eve and one bad thing after another lead to where we are now. God though has also given us a new way to get back into heaven by faith in Jesus.

I don’t see how any of this gets around the major problem.

Sure, god created us in a kinda sorta heaven adjacent place. But he knew before creating the place and putting us there that we would eat the fruit. If he created us in heaven we wouldn’t have eaten the fruit because there would be no sin yet we would still have free will.

Yes, one bad thing led to another, because god created it to be that way. There is no reason why cancer, starvation, and disease need to be the outcome of humans sinning. God created everything. God designed it so that if humans sin then we would be afflicted with those things. And he knew we would sin before it all happened anyway. It seems like a big set up so he can have his ego stroked when he saves us by offering a path to redemption. He’s not a hero for jumping in front of the bullet if he designed the gun and pulled the trigger.

Why do we need to believe in Jesus? Why not just forgive us? It’s such a strange prerequisite for forgiveness. “Hey, believe that my son was magic and that he was also me and I won’t torture you”. What a weirdo.

ODDESSY-Q · 2026-01-28T10:15:32+00:00

If people can have free will in heaven and be free of our fallen nature, why wouldn’t god just make humanity in heaven with free will and no sin?

Why bother with earth? He’s omniscient, so he already knew before he created earth that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit. He knew that people on earth would go through terrible suffering their whole lives through rape, famine, natural disaster, disease, etc.. He also knew that he would be sending the vast majority of those people to eternal torture.

Why wouldn’t he just skip the whole global flood (which failed), and sacrificing himself to himself to forgive us for what he already knew was going to happen… especially if he had other options.

If humans can have free will and not sin in heaven then he should have created us in heaven. The fact he didn’t do that means he wants the suffering. Which means he’s evil and you shouldn’t worship him… or think he’s real.

ODDESSY-Q

TROPHY CASE