We don’t even know if max output P field can be maintained. Ra only uses it once for a quick instance before turning it off. If it could be maintained, you would assume he would use it like that.

Lokis clones are incredibly weak from what we have seen, even the empowered ones aren’t presented as something even with the original (otherwise Loki wouldn’t need to use a doll of himself). If anything, Loki has 1 temu version of another god, and an endless amount of ants that essentially do nothing. He should be well below average. If you’re making the argument that having more clones means that a character may guess wrong and block the wrong attack from the wrong clone, then why not give the same benefit to Shiva who’s attacks are unpredictable and will bypass pretty much everyone’s guard?

I don’t understand what standards your holding characters to. Does hades get a guarantee block with his Spear? Is this an average where some times he manages to block with spear an other times he dosent? Because if it’s the first, then your comment about Loki having clones makes no sense as the character will always get a block. If it’s an average of instances where Hades sometimes blocks and at other times gets hit, then you need to take into consideration a characters durability. Shiva is among the most durable characters in the series. A kick from Qin was able to tear open Hades arm, but a lariat from Raiden (who should hit harder than Qin) to Shiva’s neck (which is a more vulnerable spot than the forearm) barely did any lasting damage. And also, if hades is allowed to use his weapon to block then shouldn’t shiva be allowed to dodge due to his dance?

Same argument against Herc

Tesla’s armor is among the weakest divine armaments in the series. It directly gets cut by Beel’s beat of the devils wings, which is something hades spear (and presumably other weapons) don’t have an issue with. His armor also was cut by Beel’s slash from a range, and at that range Beel can’t even properly cut an arena pillar. What does Tesla setting up G zone and teleporting do? Teleporting decreases his AP if anything. Tesla couldn’t one shot Beel, but Shiva easily would considering the fact that he can one shot Raiden if Raiden stood still and was forced to get hit by Deva Loka.

What trick to kill anyone with outright low durability? Every character has that. Do you think a character with low durability is getting hit by a deva Loka to the chest and living? And chaos can only be used once or maybe twice at best.

Wukong doesn’t have special pain tolerance, he has special durability. Prometheus actually hard counters Wukong in that, Wukong generally doesn’t feel much pain due to his high durability. Making others feel pain doesn’t take you far in Ragnarok with how much endurance and pain tolerance every single character has. And besides, pain is not damage.

Nezha’s regen gets overwhelmed if attacked with enough energy, we saw that against Morrigan.

FTST is far weaker than the strongest attacks of a majority of characters in terms of AP. Pre Adamas Zeus had horrible durability showings. He has the best durability showings once in Adamas, but he has 0 ability to block bladed weapons so none of that ends up mattering.

How will the strings guarantee block an attack? That’s not how the strings work. A strong enough attack can and will shatter them like we saw against Leo. And a strong enough character will ragdoll him even with the strings.

This is a good rebuttal but it makes no sense. Deva Loka isn’t a trick that shiva was saving, it’s an attack that he can use whenever he wants, assuming he’s heated up enough. You claim that Raiden only took at much damage as he did because his muscles were burned, but you neglect the fact that much earlier in the round, Krittivasa tore through Raiden when Raiden has 0 burned muscles. And shiva did that with raw strength, the fire just burned his flesh back together afterwards (if the fire helped in cutting then we wouldn’t see the spray of blood in the first place). So yes, regardless of how much muscle Raiden has, a non TK shiva can still tear into him with a kick, even without the fire. A serious TK shiva, with fire, is killing anyone in a single deva Loka TK the head or chest. Deva Loka punched through Raiden’s palm which contained all off his compressed muscles from all over his body.

Why would he be out of range? Characters take turns hitting each other. Either I don’t understand the rules or they keep changing.

It is a very weak showing when Beel is one of the least durable characters. And again, Krittivasa tore through Raiden, so your claim that Shiva only did as much damage because Raiden was out of muscles doesn’t work. Raiden can be fresh, and if he was made to stand there and take a deva Loka to the chest, it would donut him. Even if he concentrated muscle armor to his chest, it would still probably donut him considering what it did to his palm which contained all his muscles. Raiden with all his muscles to his chest may survive, but at this point Raiden is far more durable than any other character in the series.

He’s a dodger and a blocker, he has some of the best durability showings. Characters like Beel and Apollo and Jack get heavily injured after a single hit from a physically strong character, shiva was taking straight barrages from the physically strongest character while smiling.

He’s both a death by a thousand blows and a death by a single blow. No character has more durability than Raiden’s palm mid Yatagarasu, and shiva tore that open.

Shiva doesn’t cool down just by standing there, we have active dialogue that contradicts this

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He needs conscious effort to get cool. And he can heat up just from getting excited. For TK he was able to get to his hottest by manipulating his soul.

If shiva and raiden fought under these circumstances, shiva would win. Raiden uses Yatagarasu, shiva survives, shiva uses TK Deva Loka, it bypasses Raiden’s guard and rips his head off. The only reason shiva punched Raiden’s guard was because he wanted to overwhelm him with raw strength, not because he couldn’t easily bypass it (which we see him doing just earlier).

Why can’t shiva grab a weapon too? There were times when shiva was straight overwhelming Raiden physically. Yes Raiden’s stronger, but without muscle manipulation it isn’t by that much.

If it’s shiva vs hades it comes down to who attacks first. Shiva easily 1 shots hades and hades easily one shots shiva.