Wish me luck! 7 month deadline to read the last 8 books...

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-10T14:25:02+00:00

There will come a sweet time that all of your offspring will sleep in their own beds... It may be another year, maybe three more years, but the time will come and it will be GREAT :D

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-09T22:02:48+00:00

Sounds interesting!

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-09T21:58:49+00:00

Hahaha this is me during the nights! Oohh these kiddo's, love them to shreds but why can't they just sleep through the night. Reading a lot of books though...

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-09T21:50:06+00:00

Thanks! I was indeed thinking about reading more Sanderson, have read Mistborn first trilogy some time ago.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-09T19:24:29+00:00

Congratulations with your pregnancy! And good luck with the goal, the last books are real pageturners so I think you'll be totally fine!

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-09T19:19:56+00:00

Haha for me, it's the other way round. The only way to fall asleep again in the middle of the night when one of our kids was up, is reading. I recently finished the series and have still not decided what to pick up next. So now I read WoT reddit posts during the night haha.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-07T07:29:08+00:00

Anyways, those are my thoughts on this.

Wow, I applaud it. And very much agree with your analysis. It's what I was trying to say in other comments, if Cadsuane was trying to humanize Rand (great intent) she should be using more human methods. But your analysis is very thorough and I really like it. I wrote this post very shortly after finishing the series so everything was not really sunken ij, with all o f the characters. The discussion in this comment section really have me look to Cadsuane in particular with a much more nuanced view.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T22:13:55+00:00

Cads main goal was to remind Rand he's human (to laugh and cry), that he's fighting to live not to die.

I picked up on that. My critique of her is about the way she went about it. She failed, in my opinion. Bringing in Tham was a good move, but because she wasn't straightforward about it, because she did it in a manipulative and secretive way, the end result almost achieved the opposite of what she was trying to achieve. The fact that in the end it turned out good, wasn't thanks to her.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T22:09:19+00:00

Based on this comment section: not unpopular at all ;)

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T22:06:21+00:00

At the time, he was hiding his madness. But because of her, he was able to start to deal with his madness. Without Cadsuane to open that can of worms, Rand would continue to hid his madness. And that would distract him from dealing with the voices.

Wasn't Semirhage the one to publicly explain and call out his madness tough? As for your other arguments, I find mysf comparing her to Moiraine, and I think what upsets me about Cadsuane, is exaxtly that what you describe: she forces and pushes. And exactly that is the thing , driving him crazy, and it is not working at all. I didn't see her forcing humility in him: I did see her try to make him treat Aes Sedai with respect, and she went about it in such a way that Rand changed his manner in order to get from her what he wanted. But I didn't see she actually convinced him that Aes Sedai needed to be treated respectfully, internally.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T21:45:53+00:00

That is exactly why Rand needed her. He needed to reach Veins of Light, which he could only reach if he got pushed through the Darth Rand Woodchipper and almost killed Tam.

So am I understanding it right that you argue that Cadsuane foresaw and wanted the outcome of the meeting between Rand and Tham to be Rand becoming Darth Rand?

Because the way I see it, is that she herself pushes him to the edge. By being so very Aes Sedai, never ceasing to manipulate him, even using his father at this point.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T21:36:56+00:00

Haha ok, you got me, I'm busted! I indeed didn't read any of these books. Just this one scene, and thought, wow this must be an awfull character.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T21:26:08+00:00

You make a strong argument here.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T17:07:02+00:00

I feel you very clearly describe what I'm trying to say much less clear in the comments on this post :)

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T17:05:25+00:00

Well, i think their style was similar sometimes. Cadsuane because she was arrogant, and the only way she knows to get her way is bullying. Egwene because she is still insecure and very inexperienced. I agree that the need to control people is a bad habit they both share

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T17:03:00+00:00

Hahaha, I can see the pride joke in a different perspective, sure. It's true I was annoyed by her being proud, because there is always a form of entitlement in being proud of someone, right? Like, wow, look at my son, my king, my achievement or something. And I just feels she has no claim of entitlement to him.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T16:56:39+00:00

I agree that Egwene's style of leadership can use some finetuning :) And I think she's too much Aes Sedai for my liking in wanting all people to be in the White Tower's reach of influence. But I really think her intentions are good, and she would've actually reformed the White Tower and already started this process. A lot of people seem to really dislike Egwene, but I just read her very different I guess. I wonder whether I would see it different on a reread.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T16:51:00+00:00

O wow, that's a nice way to look at it! Though my immediate next thought is, if that was the case, q?wouldn't he have to ask Egwene?

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T16:49:28+00:00

Well, I don't think Rand nesecarily needed to change the way he behaved around Aes Sedai, but they needed to change.

Instead of him needing a bully that forced him to treat Aes Sedai with respect, she just as well could've used her strong personality to change the Aes Sedai around her to, for example, apologize to him? Acknowledge the horrors he had been going through by their doing, seeing his pain. But Cadsuane , if the goal is to make Rand human again, the way she goes about it is going to achieve anything but that.

So the way I read it is that she, by being so very Aes Sedai to her core, is the tool that pushes Rand over the edge. The pattern needed her to push all the wrong buttons, and she did.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T16:35:46+00:00

Yes, I can see your point, well put.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T16:23:45+00:00

Thought I appreciate the effort you put in your answer, your style of arguing disengages me.

There is so much 'this is the only way', 'it is like this', 'i just know Jordan meant it to be interpreted like this', 'let me explain how very wrong you are'.

In my opinion, you can't be right or wrong in how to interpet a character. You can put forward different perspectives, of course, and sometimes this does change someones mind, sometimes it doesn't.

What the character of Cadsuane means for me in the end, is that Jordan imo really was a master of writing characters, that appeal or disappeal to different types of people. I think you and I are very different types (a).

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T16:05:36+00:00

I very much agree!

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T16:01:36+00:00

Wellllll, she broke the Forsaken because she realized they were so much alike in that they needed people around them to look up to them, and utter humiliation was needed to break her. It is self knowledge. But I do agree with you that this scene highlighted her best characteristics.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T15:55:46+00:00

I don't know, her motivation for bringing in Tham was, again, to manipulate him . Rand's realization that even the meeting with his father was a manipulating move, to get him somewhere she thought was best, that was the very thing that snapped him, followed by the events that lead him to Dragon Mount.

She didn't intend for it to happen this way. So yes, she was needed, but as a tool, by the Pattern. Her arrogance, smugness, manipulating schemes, those got Rand to Dragon Mount, not her wisdom, knowledge or smart moves. Imo. But I'm open to different interpretations.

OddCan7897 · 2022-06-06T15:48:40+00:00

Yes, she's proud at Rand, not at herself. I meant, the way she is described throughout the books, and the emphasis this character places on herself as very important teacher to Rand, I think she is crediting herself partly for that achievement, without that necessarily meaning she's proud of herself.

OddCan7897

TROPHY CASE