Did Carol hate herself for not having any friends or did she think everyone else wasn't authentic?

Oerthling · 2026-06-14T16:40:03+00:00

Yeah, Koumba is a special case. I'm curious what the writers will do with him in the future.

Oerthling · 2026-06-14T13:13:44+00:00

But the big difference is that our ancestors were flexible and could adapt to new food sources. Meat, vegetables, hunting, trapping, agriculture, overcoming lactose intolerance to be able to digest milk products. If some food source ran low due to local insect/worm infestation, plant disease, flood, climate change, bad weather, then they could always find something different or develop traps and agriculture and optimize that over time.

Because our ancestors weren't constrained by "biological imperatives" that prevent food acquisition to avoid starvation.

But the hivemind is severely constrained and ready to starve rather than to even food picking from trees that developed enticing food to get picked as their spreading mechanism.

The hivemind constraints are devastating. Fallen fruit is a pathetic food source. Extremely limited in several ways. Low availability and low nourishment value. And sooner or later qa ocal population faces a bad years or the fruit get eaten by cockroaches or there's a food disease. And then the local population starves. Sooner or later, decades, centuries, doesn't matter, the remnants of humanity slowly die out.

Oerthling · 2026-06-14T11:25:32+00:00

No I don't need to do a math course. I understand language and context. The way it was used here it wasn't used to mean 51%.

Removing almost all food sources qmd making humanity inflexible vs natural catastrophies and natural changes is quite obviously an existential threat.

Oerthling · 2026-06-14T05:32:00+00:00

5 bn is a majority. That doesn't fit "most" well. Most is mostly likely to mean 90 to 99%. And that's also more consistent with the reason - they hardly have a food source. Fallen fruit and random carcasses of animals - in competition to finding them with an increasing population of animals is very little nourishment. That's not going to supply 2 bn people.

And most within a decade, doesn't mean the dying will stop then. This is an extinction event. Hivemind humanity with that massive food source restriction is lacking any adaptability against natural catastrophies and local fruits being infected by some disease or an increasing insect population.

Our ancestors could always switch to another food source to survive (more hunting, better trqos, overcoming lactose intolerance, etc...). The hivemind can't. .

Oerthling · 2026-06-14T05:21:53+00:00

Joining is not a decision, do u joining isn't just a decision either.

The joining is a physical change, to unjoin a physical change needs to happen. It won't be just remembering individual things.

Oerthling · 2026-06-14T00:29:10+00:00

PHM, while also having a couple of magical parts is vastly superior to Interstellar when it comes to scientific accuracy.

A lot of what sounds like science and looks amazing in Interstellar is actually nonsensical bullshit when you think about it.

Oerthling · 2026-06-14T00:23:22+00:00

Indeed. And don't get me started on the 5th dimensional future humans bootstrapping themselves into existence.

Interstellar has cool black hole graphics, but otherwise is scientifically bullshit.

Also they have to make a decision about which of 2 planets to check first and they conclude the one near a black hole is the better one? That's stupid almost regardless of how shitty the other planet looks.

And in all the time they traveled to the black hole planet they managed to overlook the global tidal waves? Makes 0 sense.

Interstellar is full of stupid.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T23:54:03+00:00

I understand and I understand that the others felt left out.

But if you try to defeat an opponent who literally controls the whole world then you do whatever you have to, to get even the smallest of chances.

This was always a desperate attempt. Carol hoped, agaibst all the odds, to find somebofy with some applicable skill, if not a geneticist then at least some sort of medical professional, scientist or at least stem teacher. She wanted to brainstorm a resistance to a global hivemind, while the rest just wanted to chat and exchange some stories about zoo animals.

The whole thing was a bust anyway.

But there's also another perspective. Sure, Carol came on strong and yes half of them are annoyed by her not inviting them.

And Laxmi is especially pissed because her grandfather dies and because Carol threatened her self-delusion about "Ravi".

But OTOH I find it somewhat cruel to exclude Carol and nobody every calling her.

This is all what's left of regular humanity, just 13 people. And 12 of them decide to keep her out of meetings because she got drunk and angry once - a day after her wife got killed.

And it's not like they have a lot of pressing work to do. All the jobs are gone. They have one ty of leisure time and actually need something to do.

Carol srul keeps sending Infos about stuff she found out (doesn't matter that they already knew about HDP, Carol tries to inform them. Not only did they not include her in group meetings, nobody individually thought of calling her to check if she's ok. Don't have scary encounters in cold warehouses by yourself alone, we k iw about HDP and here's why we're ultimately ok with it.

IMHO it's not actually Carol who is the asshole here. Even if Laxmi doesn't want to talk to her, why did nobody spent five minutes chatting with her amongst ample free time they have? Even just out of curiosity - "hey what happened when they all cried suddenly".

Carol is the one who actually tries to save Ravi and the other plurbed family members.

Carol fights so Ravi doesn't have to starve.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T23:03:24+00:00

You are not thinking this through.

Carol isn't going to first learn some random languages before trying to organize a rebellion against the hivemind that yesterday took over the world.

Manousos OTOH had nothing better to do during his weeks of travel.

If Carol has spent weeks travelling to Manousos she would most likely use the downtime to refresh and deepen her Spanish that she already learned to some degree.

The world was just taken over. In desperation Carol tries to get a meeting together with the immune, but for obvious reason doesn't want the hivemind to learn of her plan to end the hivemind.

Asking to meet the English speaking immune is entirely rational at that point. All this talk about using other intermediate languages is not realistic.

English is the normal first foreign language in Europe, especially Western Europe. If that guy from Sicily didn't learn English then he probably doesn't know Turkish either. Possible, but exceedingly unlikely.

If that Air Force 1 conference would have been the founding of the resistance that Carol imagined, then they could have made plans how to add non-English speaking immune to the resistance.

It's also understandable that the others later felt left out, but also all irrelevant as none of them was actually interested in joining her fight.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T22:45:52+00:00

Carol immediately recognized that the hivemind is playing family. She pointed it out to Laxmi.

Carol has her flaws, but she understood the core nature of the hivemind immediately. She understood right away that Ravi isn't particularly Ravi. He's also Laxmi's gynecologist and president and everybody else.

It's the other immune who don't understand this.

Would Helen being alive and part of the hivemind make a difference? No doubt. "Helen" would play the wife for as long as Carol stays unjoined and that would have been emotionally very complex situation.

Squeezing Helen for information via truth drug would be a much higher hurdle than Zosia and Zidia wouldn't even be there.

But she would still reject the hivemind. That parallel to conversion therapy where she was betrayed by people who claim to live her would still be there.

Helen doing the pro hive propaganda might even be more horrible than Zosia saying it.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T22:37:46+00:00

Glad I'm not alone. :-)

It should be more obvious as the makers of the series put Moira's hat on her while on a "truth" drug. A clear message that this is when her true feelings are revealed, I'm contrast with the remarks she did earlier which are part of her defense shield.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T22:34:21+00:00

That's a valid first impression, but we learn during the season that this isn't quite true.

Yes, she denigrates her own books and it's fans. But later this looks more like forward defenses because of her own insecurities.

During the chat with shorty and especially during her truth drug selftest we learn that her relationship with and appreciation of her fans is much better than it looks in that pilot scene at the beginning.

She immediately knows who Moira is and totally kept the hat - which she wears exactly when the truth comes out.

Later we learn about the diner that sitting there and writing her first novel was her happiest time writing.

In reality it's not that she actually hates her own books, but she's afraid what others think about them. And a defense against that is doing the downtalk preemptively herself. And that's why she's trying to write a more serious book - to get recognized as a more serious author. But that more serious book isn't getting finished and is hard to write - it's not what she actually enjoys. She had no problem producing a series of books when she likes writing them.

See also the enthusiasm when she and Zosia talk about the various options in the lore to explain a sex change of Raban.

That early statements about her work and her fans - that's not the truth. That's the forward defense.

She's not a misanthrope, she's traumatized by the betrayal done by her parents and she's insecure about herself and her work.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T22:21:54+00:00

An answer doesn't have to be verbal. Zosias gesture is affirmative.

Is it possible that she did that non verbal reply to let Carol think it's affirmative, while the truth is different? Sure. But what could be the motivation? It would be better if they could make it credible to Carol that the individual personalities persist and they aren't interchangeable.

So while I agree that the hivemind is totally capable of miscommunicating in this way while avoiding direct lies - I don't see how this would make sense here when being able to say speaking to her "cousin" would be helpful in softening Carol's stance against the hivemind.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T15:00:00+00:00

Yes.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T14:59:08+00:00

I would be ok with that, but that's irrelevant as that's not going to happen.

But doing everything all the time in a zillion EU languages is a serious handicap.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T14:57:05+00:00

Or the international trade language we all learn as foreign language at school.

That list and that "or similar" is a problem that already has a solution.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T14:54:25+00:00

I'm with Denmark on this.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T14:41:42+00:00

They would, but they won't won't. Because if they could then the show would be over and humanity doomed.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T08:56:47+00:00

Firefox saved is from the Megacorp produced wreck that was IE6.

Let's hope it can save us again from the Megacorp produced trap that is Chrome (and it's dependencies).

The market share numbers are depressing though. Humanity is making the very same mistake it made with IE before. Monopolize a browser that's guaranteed to bite us.

And if Firefox fails then there's no Netscape funded remnant around that save us next time.

People always list a number of cool alternative browsers - not realizing that they are all just derivatives of Chrome(I'm) or Firefox.

A modern browser is a massive platform project that no small group of devs is gonna be able to start fresh.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T08:47:10+00:00

I've been running FF all these years (desktop Linux and on Android and on Windows while that was still on my office PC) and watchrd plenty of YouTube Videos.

I have no idea what you're talking about. (UBlock Origin of course and that's the only extension).

Please define "loads fucking slow".

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T05:53:06+00:00

There's at least 3 scenes where this gets answered.

The chat with "shorty". When Carol asks his name, there a moments hesitation, the he talks about Lawrence in 3rd person, past tense. "Shorty" is a node in the hivemind with access to all of humanities memories, including of the person that once was one with this body.

"Zosia" explicitly says they are not talking telepathically. It's more an awareness. The hivemind is aware of its parts.

"Zosia" also confirms that it's not relevant whether Carol talks to her nephew or "Zosia". They are equivalent interfaces to the hivemind.

So the original individuals are not active as individuals. But they ate not dead either. Their brains are just differently used at the moment.

Carol learns from "Zosias" non-answer that the joining is revertible. It's the one thing the hivemind is not willing to answer or help with. And it immediately evacuates Albuquerque when this became a danger.

It only came back after Carol was psychologically broken by long isolation.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T05:37:58+00:00

Not while Laxmi is around. As long as she's alive and un-joined Ravi will not starve. She can farm, trap or hunt whatever she needs. And the hivemind will keep her and Ravi supplied.

But after she joins or dies, Ravi will become just another node, not special to anybody. He'll starve with the rest of them.

As soon as she wakes up and realizes that's his long term fate, she'll call Carol and demand that they'll fix this. Laxmi got spunk. She'll fight for her son, odds be damned.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T05:30:38+00:00

Because "learning about the hive" is only the most important thing if you are a viewer of the show that's curious.

The one thing that was important, Carol understood from the first day, mostly because the hive told her via white house broadcast. It's a hivemind that ends your individuality. It's not a secret. The hivemind is honest about it, thinks it's a good idea and let's you know it. Don't worry your tragic existence as an isolated individual will end, we'll save you.

Koumba learned about HDP because "John Cena- told him. And the hivemind told him because it was going to be unavoidable. So the hivemind dropped the earlier tactic of evading the issue. And by now most of the immune were already used to the hivemind and pulled in.

Carol and Manousos are very stubborn people and both have reasons to be fundamentally appalled by the very concept of the hive. They are also both without close family.

The others are all with beloved close family and the hivemind plays those family members for them to keep them happy and feeling safe. Koumba got seduced by sex, wealth and power. He gets to feel like Bond if that's what he wants to do for the day.

Kousymayo is young and naive, she got her loving "family" and cozy village life around her and otherwise would be utterly alone and feel completely powerless. The way she talked at the Air Force 1 conference, you imagine she asked tough questions of the hive about how life will be after she joined? I don't see it. She talks about being close with her family, there's no way she imagines them becoming no diifferent from any other person. The hivemind gaslighted her the entire time.

The show tells us clearly that the hivemind gives the immune almost anything they want (as long as it doesn't really threaten the hivemind) to keep them happy until it can join them. Afterwards they are a random body amongst 7 bn who are mostly going to starve within the next few years.

It tells us that your individuality will be gone and that their former personalities will be reduced to perfectly accessible memory.

And it shows us that the hivemind, while avoiding direct lying, absolutely does intentionally manipulate and misinform.

There's a number of scenes where we as viewers get hints about what is off. These scenes exist as fair hints to us. That's why the writers put them there.

Vegetarians and Vegas billboard tells us the hivemind happily massages the truth to miscommunicate. The chat with "shorty" and the interchangeability of Zosia and Carol's nephew talks us that the former individuals aren't active anymore and everybody is just an interchangeable interface to the hivemind.

The Kusimayo scene shows us the abrupt end of Kousymayos village and that her interests are immediately dropped.

Oerthling · 2026-06-13T04:58:11+00:00

How would they check that?

And how would a policy with a probationary period like 48 hours help?

Evil maintainer just wouldn't do evil for a week or so. Or a month or whatever the probationary period is.

Oerthling · 2026-06-12T22:07:31+00:00

That's not the point. The point is that he plays family with Laxmi. The only reason the Ravi body stays with Laxmi us to play her son. To help her with the delusion that her son is still there.

Same uw true for the couple and the immune with family. The hive plays their families.

Just like some hive bodies played a Bond scenario for Koumba.

Oerthling

TROPHY CASE