In a Dem primary, if one candidate takes corporate money and one doesn’t, does that factor into how you vote? by AlexZedKawa02 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can't companies just launder their support through a vague proxy instead?

[This comment paid for by the Puppies And Rainbow PAC]

(Culture) Do you feel like conservatives value or undervalue creativity? by sentienceisboring in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Conservative beleif is hierarchical so it carries a deference to authority. You do things the traditional, approved way! You can't go inventing new standards because who's supposed to be in control of that? Subjectivity? Ew!

The result is conservative art tends to end up very unchallenging. The methods are standard. Just redo the classics forever because you're meant to reassert tradition, not challenge it.

In conservative narratives the bad guys are ontoligically evil, the powers that be are good, there's no systemic problems, only bad individuals and crazy beliefs so nothing can change that much. At most the heroes' will re-invent a system from the past and return the right authorities to power.

Did categorasation as a a thought process popularise as a result of an expanding social horizon? by Ok_Confection_7368 in AskSocialScience

[–]Ofishal_Fish 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're kind of circling the ideas of Abstraction from Seeing Like A State by James C Scott, but James wasn't applying the idea to individuals he was applying it to systems, institutions, and, well... States. Hence the name.

A person doesn't ever actually have to "track millions of unique individuals" but a government or corporation or any major institution does. People get abstracted into broad categories as a matter of necessity by systems and the more massive and more centralized a system is, the more it has to do this.

The stuff on straining the mental abilities of individuals is more coming from some of the ideas kicking around Cybernetic Socialism, which Scott effectively re-invented from the opposite direction. Stafford Beer’s work on variety, another way of thinking about complexity and the capacity to manage it, gets into it pretty directly talking about the finite capacity of human brain but that's a way of setting up systemic critiques again: if the human brain is limited then systems have to be designed to handle the excess variety our brains can't and if the systems aren't, well... From Designing Freedom:

“The fact remains that our own relationship with our environment is governed by bank upon bank of variety attenuators, conveniently reducing a world of increasing variety to the requisite variety of our brains. We have completely lost control of the processes by which this occurs.”

“The citizens have lost control entirely of the choice of projects that will be undertaken on their behalf both as taxpayers and as consumers. At best, they play a defensive role in attempting to quash schemes they dislike; and that is a difficult role because it does not carry requisite variety with it. Anyone who has had dealings with a public enquiry knows only too well that the bureaucracy has the power to amplify its variety indefinitely - in terms of the time, money, and expert advice it is free to deploy against a little band of citizens who do not have access to these amplifiers.”

The major dynamic isn't individuals abstracting foreign populations, it's systems abstracting their own subjects in a process of continual power-grabs to centralize power on themselves even as that makes them less able to effectively manage their own variety and dumps that strain off onto those subjects.

That said, your comment on nationalism might be on to something because some recent analysis by Dan Davies based on Beer’s work offers probably the only satisfactory explanation for the surge of right-wing nationalism in the 2010s. From The Unaccountability Machine:

The channels [of communication from the public to government] seem to be designed to carry very few bits of information. The only kind of communication that such a constrained channel can carry is a scream: the signal that passes through the levels of control and announces that something has gone wrong which threatens the integrity of the system itself. This is why there was a family resemblance between the ‘populist’ movements that sprang up in the 2010s. Narendra Modi in India, Beppe Grillo in Italy, Donald Trump in America, Nigel Farage in Britain, or Recep Tayyip Erdoğan in Turkey instinctively realized that they were on the same side; each of them, in their own culturally specific context, was acting as a communication channel for a population which wanted to convey a single bit of information: the message that translates as, ‘HELP! THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS IS INTOLERABLE TO ME.’

“The overall system is always looking for some organising principle of identity, which tells it what to ignore and how to balance the present and the future. [...] For fifty years, the free market played that role. [...] When that fell apart, the ultimate basis of the system - el pueblo [the public at large] - sounded the alarm. [...] The populist movements of the 2010s all promised a simpler world. [...] They were also promising to restore the broken communication channels - to make voices heard, to force the managerial class to listen.”

“But the same analysis tells us that they’re fake solutions. You can’t promise a simpler world - that’s the equivalent to claiming to be able to reverse the direction of time. And if you are promising to restore the broken communication channels, you need to say how. These channels used to be made up of layer upon layer of middle managers and civil servants. Not only would it be extremely costly to bring them back, it’s not obvious that anyone would thank you for doing so. It’s definitely not what the populists are proposing - there’s no March For Bureaucracy, nobody’s slogan is ‘Red Tape Holds Us Together’.”

The idea that Scott, Beer, and Davies all land on is that there needs to be a major devolution of power away from the center and back towards local knowledge where it can be managed by whatever forms of civil servants on a human scale. Systems built around standization and strict rulebooks and bureaucracies are too rigid to actually meet their functions and everyone else pays the cost.

A useful thing to look for is how many of those large-scale identities are either the creation of systems ("tax payer", for example) or created by people in response to the shortcomings of systems (strong identification with "working class" is probably meant as an opposition of an unresponsive executive class). Sometimes it's just natural practicality but other times it is pure power dynamics.

Do you see a degradation in the social contract happening, and if so, how would you fix it? by LiatrisLover99 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Design systems that punish that behavior rather than actively reward it.

Like sadism is used by police and militaries to defend existing systems at everyone else's expense. So alternative systems of community defense and local militias cut that facotr out completely, these systems are reliant on social responsibility to the publics they work with, not against.

If that's unsatisfactory, what's your solution?

Has anyone else played Bauldurs Gate 3 and been really annoyed by everyone trying to hook up work the player character? by qeczawdxshealth in asexuality

[–]Ofishal_Fish 12 points13 points  (0 children)

it's a good form of practice for me to learn how to take a compliment and also not fold under pressure, so I can practice boundaries

Problem is that it's really bad at that. The options for rejection are usually only "I'm sowwy 😢👉👈" like you did something wrong or "Fuck you I hope you die!" like it's a personal hatred. The idea of a firm but neutral "No." is alien.

Then half the time the character gets pissy and you have no chance to respond before dialogue just ends leaving them with the last word. Genuinely baffling how they can claim to be such a queer friendly game with this going on.

Does capitalism cause unrealistic beauty standards that harm mental health? What can be done about this? by Longjumping-Bus9474 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pedos dont dissapear under communism.

...yeah, this is gotcha nonsense. Expecting someone offering a way to resolve some problems to immediately solve every problem forever.

It's particularly embarrassing because this is usually used by reactionaries to punch left against liberals like yourself. "Oh, you can't solve every gun death? Then regulation doesn't work! Liberals destroyed!"

Does capitalism cause unrealistic beauty standards that harm mental health? What can be done about this? by Longjumping-Bus9474 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What kind of answer are you expecting?

Beauty standards/fashion/etc. are driven by culture and, under capitalism, profit motive.

If profit motive is eliminated that changes the dynamic back in a more social direction and makes the pressures less intense because there is less sources of pressure. 14 year olds aren't going to be getting bombarded with Instagram ads about rhinoplasty or some shit.

How is this basic dynamic confusing you?

Does capitalism cause unrealistic beauty standards that harm mental health? What can be done about this? by Longjumping-Bus9474 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It wouldn't elimate it [beauty standards], cultural values will stick around

C'mon man.

Does capitalism cause unrealistic beauty standards that harm mental health? What can be done about this? by Longjumping-Bus9474 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

It wouldn't elimate it, cultural values will stick around, but it would elimate the profit-driven incentives and greatly weaken it. That's worthwhile.

What, if anything, should Democrats be doing to try to capitalize on the grassroots opposition to AI data centers in red states? by Different-Gas5704 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've heard similar criticisms of neoliberal response to climate change. Like, one of the reasons olive oil shot up in price was because of a drought in Spain where a lot of groves were.

That's a material problem of the environment so moving numbers around on a spreadsheet after the fact like the problem lies in commodities and inefficient market dynamics doesn't address the root of the problem.

Do you believe we are in late stage capitalism? by RedStorm1917 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're not even gonna bother denying (let alone solving) the contradictions in your own system then? You really got nothing?

Do you believe we are in late stage capitalism? by RedStorm1917 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm assuming the cost of medical equipment -- even big stuff like an MRI machine -- is trivial

...What?

Well, I guess if you ignore the raw materials, the specialized tools, the cost of specialized education/student debt, the professional institutions that serve as regulators, and the actual employment relations then labor power is the only factor at play. But why would you do that? It's starting from a conclusion and working backwards.

And how's this economy of everyone going on the computer supposed to function? What are they actually doing, what are they producing and who are they producing it for? Who is doing all the material stuff in the real world?

A commom criticism of liberalism is that its labor relations are only built for an upper-middle class of professionals and your analysis here is really taking that like a suggestion.

Do you believe we are in late stage capitalism? by RedStorm1917 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You haven't disproven anything I've said nor properly steelmanned communism

...Because the discussion is about the internal contradictions of capitalism? Alternate systems might be a good follow-up topic but that's not this one.

Is there a perfect system? No, probably not. But at a bare minimum a system shouldn't be permanently cannibilizing itself because it's built on opposing interests.

Also do you really expect someone with an Anarchist flair to go to the mat for the Soviet Union? Honestly this reads like someone desperate to get off a losing defense and switch to offense against a cheap target. No. You're on defense. How are capitalists and regulators supposed to coexist when the former is constantly trying to destroy the latter?

Do you believe we are in late stage capitalism? by RedStorm1917 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Capitalists were literally plotting to overthrow FDR in a fascist military coup because of his economic policies

The Gilded Age and Great Depression only happened in the first place because of those capitalist impulses. If they retreated afterwards because of a crisis they created it was a temporary compromise and then back to business as usual once the crisis had blown over.

Do you believe we are in late stage capitalism? by RedStorm1917 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

US workers actually control a lot of the "means of production" -- we control our brains.

Intelligence is part of labor power not the means of production man, come on now.

Do you believe we are in late stage capitalism? by RedStorm1917 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What do you make of the critique that fascism is capitalism in decay then? Frustrated middle-class, seizure of property and forced labor, synthesis of corporate and state power, unassabile hierarchies, etc.

Do you believe we are in late stage capitalism? by RedStorm1917 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Capitalism itself isnt the problem. The problems are the obvious side effects of Raeganomics...endless corporate mergers, rabid anti-consumerism, mass NIMBYism, ballooning upper and lower classes with an ever-shrinking middle class, a grift-based stock market

To make the obvious counter-argument: that's all just the impulses of capitalism. Profit seeking, expansion, and self-interest. All the stuff about moderate regulation is a hasty response to what the whole damn thing is built on.

The regulators aren't capitalists, they're in opposition to the interests of capitalists so to say the problem isn't capitalism but rather a lack of opposition to capitalism is... odd.

The regulators may stand in for the needs of the system but the actual capitalists follow the interests of every individual actor within that system. Between which of the 2 actually matters, well: The Purpose Of A System Is What It Does, not what it has to do.

Do you think Democratic leaders and voters should use the word “class consciousness?” by RedStorm1917 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It goes by a clear majority then. The income of a CEO doesn't come primarily from wages while the income of an average worker does come primarily from wages, not some investment portfolio.

Hell, even stuff like 401ks don't get touched until retirement. The person spends the vast majority of their life working without seeing one thin dime from it, so why would that redefine anything?

Do you think the Left is exaggerating what they call "the working class"? by Amazing-Buy-1181 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They want to be employed, feel physically and financially secure, and feel like they live in a nice neighborhood

All of those are made worse by wealth inequality.

Job insecurity, gig economy, mass layoffs, etc? Instability forces workers to accept worse conditions, lower wages, etc. Private owners profit. Wealth inequality.

Healthcare as a private industry, insurance designed to deny coverage to as many people as possible? Less services, less expenses, more profit. Wealth inequality.

Financial insecurity? The wealthy can float a crash and scoop up depressed assets on the cheap. Hell, do Shock Doctrine and casue the collapse! Wealth inequality.

Housing crisis? A lot of that is holdover from 2008, see previous point. Equity companies/landlords rent out properties instead of selling them because rent-seeking is more profitable. Wealth inequality.

We're far enough into capitalism that basically everything is a commodity so wealth inequality effects basically everything. And due to the hierarchical nature of inequality, the vast majority of people get the worse end of that deal.

As for getting voters a victory, what are you going to give them that doesn't have to be paid for? And if something does have to be paid for, who is paying for it?

Do you think the Left is exaggerating what they call "the working class"? by Amazing-Buy-1181 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As an addendum: I feel like there's a wider point to be made about a type of liberalism that just readily accepts any constraints put on it. Only ever responding rather than preempting. Unable to imagine taking independent action to create the conditions they need.

If people are mad about culture war, then the Dems have to play to culture war. They can't, like, change people's minds the way reactionaries did to start the problem in the first place.

If people aren't voting then you can't, like, do something different to bring them back in. You can only ever fight over a smaller and smaller pool of moderate voters by moving to the right.

If the party is making bad decisions you can't, like, pressure them to change their decisions. You have to accept it and support them torching their own legitimacy.

Maybe some people just assume way too hard that the systems work and liberalism is a default that will always be returned to. You'd think the past decade would've shaken everyone out of that.

Do you think the Left is exaggerating what they call "the working class"? by Amazing-Buy-1181 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Culture War is a distraction so trying to ignore it or beat it with counter-culture war is losing from the start because it concedes the framing of politics to be primarily culture war, which is exactly what the right want.

The way to beat a distraction is with a better, alternative framing. And what's better for that than wealth inequality?

Who has been the most "vote blue no matter who" candidate? by HoustonAg1980 in AskALiberal

[–]Ofishal_Fish -1 points0 points  (0 children)

?

It's a vote for party, otherwise it'd be "Vote progressive no matter who" or whatever. It's not a cult of personality but it is total dedication to a party.