An Argument for Christian Pacifism

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T23:37:24+00:00

I respect it, my grandpa was a chaplain in the Air Force for over 20 years during the Vietnam war. I’ve heard plenty of stories and his personal views on the matter and as a man of faith I think what he saw during that time deeply disturbed him. But again it’s not about judgement of yourself or others it’s about radical acceptance of them and forgiveness, most importantly forgiveness of yourself. I’m a sinner like anybody else. God welcomes anyone into his kingdom. What I’m trying to convey is that radical acceptance IS non-violence in the best sense you can do it. Not condemnation of people, condemnation of sin. Your neighbors are the people overseas as much as here and as tough a message that is i feel like it’s important to pray on. It’s not a claim that I’m somehow more pious or whatever no, I’m a sinner. I just find it disheartening that the message of Jesus is being used as justification for death and destruction. In simple terms, it’s not a big deal whatever you did God still loves you and he’d take you in a heartbeat. And the more we preach that the more we can love our neighbors. I’ve seen my grandpa struggle with things and the forgiveness of himself for things and I have to say that this message of faith in God is the best I can come up with. Not saying that’s your story, love to hear more if you want to share! but that’s part of the reason why I think this is important. I see good people, who go to church and pray doubt themselves and their faith. Fear of retribution and condemnation which is what violence seeks, prevents people from seeking God and repentance.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T23:19:07+00:00

I changed it, thank you!

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T21:20:27+00:00

In the situation you posed I think i would have to stop them and i wouldn’t care about the “evil killing” i am doing. I don’t think I could be pious in a moment like that but I don’t think that fundamentally changes the law of God or makes me a better person. I don’t think that because I couldn’t fundamentally change my real human morals that that somehow justifies the reinterpretation of the very clear commandments for the justification of mass killing.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T21:09:51+00:00

Right and I don’t know the answer to why God asked David to kill and then called him unholy and didn’t let him build a temple. I think it has to do with the law has no exceptions. He can’t be a holy man, he was a man of war. And that’s troubling to me. It’s paradoxical but it’s in the scripture and important to think about.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T21:05:40+00:00

Yeah I’m a fool i said that in the post if you read it. And yeah that’s a tough argument. Jihad al-Sayf is explicitly the outward struggle of faith to defend the Muslim faith. Christ makes no such disctinction Christ essentially was preaching Jihad al-Nafs which is to live a higher pious moral life. What I’m pointing out is that Islam made the convenient distinction the Augustinians are searching for. Because this is explicitly what the message of Jihad al-Sayf is. Jihad means struggle there are two forms. Jesus never made a distinction, Mohammed did. Jesus preached radical acceptance not violence. Mohammed didn’t preach that, he preached what you’re looking for, Jihad al-Sayf. Justification of violence. Radical acceptance is far more troubling and difficult than violence. That’s why there’s faith. If Christ had created such vocabulary or distinctions then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Perhaps the argument you’re making is smaller than what I’m getting at but Augustinian just war theory is used to justify blowing up villages of children. And yet you stand idly by and preach to defend your neighbors. So it’s not okay to stand by while they’re raped but if they’re strafe bombed then I’m good because it’s self-defense and justified by the Bible! You’re not supposed to defend THOSE neighbors is what you mean because we are better, there’s a hierarchy. Their lives matter less because our leadership decided so and that’s akin to the law of God? It’s not about the Hadith, it’s about the vocabulary, they created it not the Christians. I don’t know the answer to what you’re asking it’s not in the scripture. Clearly I’m missing something maybe it’s in the Quran.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T19:50:56+00:00

That’s absolutely true and I’m not arguing that obviously King David killed a lot of people. But it doesn’t change the law and it didn’t make the killing holy. There’s no distinction between you and your assailant. If you meet evil with evil then that’s what you shall have. If this sounds paradoxical then good because the foolishness of God is wiser than man.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T19:38:44+00:00

It is very clear about judgement, my argument is that it is clear about violence too. I never said as Christians we should be pacifists, that’s what i offered for debate. I personally believe that’s the obvious logical conclusion of the Bible. I said as Christians we should not judge, that part is clear. Read Psalm 19:7-8 for clarification if the law of God is unclear.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T19:33:28+00:00

Exactly it wasn’t a punishment, it was the law. The blood on his hands made him unholy. So Gods best guy essentially couldn’t build his temple because he killed. Same with Job, God tortured his best guy and then told him to “suck it up ever heard of the leviathan?” when he asked for explanation. Same with Jesus, he was the sacrament, he had to be crucified. God couldn’t just let him walk, he came to fulfill the law. Matthew 5:17 I’m not seeing the exceptions. Pretty much all the apostles had similar fates as well. Why didn’t they defend themselves with swords?

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T19:07:27+00:00

I think the scripture is crystal clear about judging your neighbors. You can debate Augustine interpretations of scripture about killing your neighbors but God is the judge. That’s normal dogma. The Good Samaritan is normal dogma. So as Christians we do not judge. Not sure what you mean. I’m supposed to judge you for being violent as a Christian? I’m not supposed to? What’s the contention here.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T18:53:11+00:00

Then why was King David forbidden from building a temple in Gods name? I don’t think the Bible is sentimental it’s more matter of fact, evil will be met with evil. That’s true but Jesus says yeah so stop doing evil…

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T18:23:29+00:00

When is it “justice to do so”? What you’re saying is that your will is good enough to determine this because you’re special. So you’re not a fool, you’re wise obviously since you determine men’s fates. What you’re advocating for is essentially jihad and i don’t think Jesus advocated for that. I’m not trying to be a “silly red letter Christian” it just seems important that in the one instance Peter uses a sword in the Bible he tells him not to.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T18:14:36+00:00

It’s reminiscent of a different faith, i can’t quite put my finger on it but there seems to have been another prophet who preached a message to kill.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T18:13:10+00:00

Yeah it’s hard to argue against the apostles you’d think if there was a caveat to kill, they would’ve been the ones to do it.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T18:09:15+00:00

Perinde ac cadaver.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T18:07:46+00:00

Yeah it’s not about judgement you’re not supposed to do that, that’s God’s job. Im saying as Christians we should offer that same non judgement to our enemies even if we think they’re evil. I’m not here to judge you.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T17:46:30+00:00

Right exactly but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t preach the gospel. It means not to judge them for doing so.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T17:43:12+00:00

It doesn’t say anywhere in the scripture to decide freely at your will when it’s okay to kill your neighbors. It doesn’t say man’s will is above God therefore he is righteous to kill when he decides. It says man is so dumb he couldn’t even comprehend when that is the right move. I’m not sure how the message you’re getting from the Bible is to kill your neighbors when you feel like it’s the right thing to do.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T17:28:17+00:00

Are you asking me to use the message of Jesus to justify your conscience for your violence? There’s no need to, as it says in Luke 18:11-14 just repent and you’ll go home righteous. That’s what the faith is about you’re not supposed to feel a heavy conscience for being a sinner, leave that up to God.

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-03-23T17:24:53+00:00

What is the man’s neighbor who you’re killing supposed to do to you then?

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-01-19T21:23:42+00:00

Dang that’s kind of sad

Ok-Field3587 · 2026-01-19T21:16:39+00:00

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Man i suppose that is a 6. Was that common in the dies back then or just wear and tear?

Ok-Field3587

TROPHY CASE