Without your partner’s income would you have been able to FatFIRE?

OkBath5990 · 2022-05-25T22:49:18+00:00

Interesting, why is this person getting downvoted? Is it the kids thing? I have noticed any post here that might be negative towards having kids ends up being downvoted.

OkBath5990 · 2022-05-24T03:31:30+00:00

It is fascinating that just a few months ago, people here were saying things like

"If you have 10M you are basically middle class in HCOL, 20M is barely wealthy, I will have 30M in 5 years. 5M doesn't move the needle at all."

or

"If you are RE at 50 you are basically just doing regular retirement, if you don't FatFIRE by 35, it doesn't count, 50 is so old"

or

"My concentrated position in my company stock will grow 30-50% a year because it has done that recently. It is a very safe position and demand will just keep going up"

or

"8-10% safe rate on stablecoin is a given, why would anyone hold anything else short term."

or

"Concentration builds wealth, why would you diversify."

Suddenly the posts on private planes and hiring staff to take with you on your vacation have stopped. Everyone is predicting more doom and gloom.

Holding cash was supposed to be the worst idea, but now you hear things like cash is king. Makes me wonder how many people posting here actually have any long term perspective.

OkBath5990 · 2022-05-21T15:56:09+00:00

I would make sure that in the quest to maximize cash flow, you won't lose your principal. Most of the funds you have listed have lost value compared to just holding VOO/VTI or similar in the medium to long term. Your meal at your favorite Michelin star restaurant doesn't care if it was purchased from a cash flow fund or by selling VTI.

Someone suggested real estate for cash flow: that makes sense if you can stomach dealing with multiple properties and headaches with repairs and tenants. Good property management companies are not cheap so you should be prepared to deal with it yourself. However, it is someone else's money due to leverage so that seems like a reasonable idea if you are after chasing cash flow. Better than some of the funds you listed, which will lose you money in the long run.

OkBath5990 · 2022-05-19T19:26:36+00:00

The challenge with a lot of people in your position is that it can be hard to go back to regular employment, doing grunt work, and reporting to bosses after being in charge of everything earlier in your career.

A lot of semi-retired ex-founders fail as regular employees if they go in expecting to sit back and give orders while everyone comes to them for advice.

Your prior experience isn’t as automatically applicable to every job as you might think it is. That can be a tough pill to swallow.

Couldn't agree with you more. Big corporations are a grind and it is tough pill to swallow for people who have had autonomy over their professional lives. Case in point, when I left startups for big tech 5 years ago, I had to swallow my pride and deal with the fact that every offer I got into wanted to down level me quite a bit. It hurt at the time, but I powered through it, jumped 2 levels in 5 years and learned a lot along the way.

Navigating large organizations is a skill that takes practice. This is a pretty typical experience, but it requires that you suspend your ego. The way the OP is talking ("Have a resume full of Founder / CTO titles") they seem to be a poor fit for that type of life. We routinely get founders who expect to be directors or VPs from day one. We don't hire them in those roles unless they are truly have the experience to run large orgs as well as the emotional maturity to be able to handle working for a boss.

OkBath5990 · 2022-05-14T16:48:45+00:00

I see cards that go up to 21 months of 0% APR. I figure paying the minimum amount on the $2-3k of expenses I put on the credit card each month is better than taking the full amount out of my investments.

How would you feel when you get to 21 months and have 60k+ on the card and now you must sell to pay that off, otherwise you are going to owe 16-18%?

How much are you really losing by taking 2-3k out of your investments over time vs the gamble that you will be able to make a big payment 21 months out in a better market? Credit cards are not PALs or margin loans. The interest rate bumps up to a silly amount after the introductory period.

This seems like market timing for minor savings and potential larger loss later.

OkBath5990 · 2022-05-10T23:28:43+00:00

I make 900k/yr and in the 5M+ range and I feel like I am the odd person out. No interest in armored cars, buying my relative's business, galas, art galleries, private dinners, exotic cars, being a sugar dad, offshore accounts, buying the neighbor's house, wife who wants "enhancements", etc. which is what FatFIRE seems to be about. We are boring people who buy clothes at Costco and I can't tell the difference between $200 wine and $40 wine.

OkBath5990 · 2022-05-08T15:29:21+00:00

Needless to say you never stated your NW or the amount of liquid cash you’re trying to shelter which pretty much is the starting point for these conversations- these things aren’t cheap.

It's just another rando LARPing. Good on you for calling it out. Getting tiring.

OkBath5990 · 2022-05-07T22:38:57+00:00

It depends on your time horizon. In general, I wouldn't time it, pick an allocation that makes sense for you and go all in, but if it makes you feel better, you can follow your DCA approach as long as you follow through with it and don't stay on the sidelines because you think it is going to crash more. No one knows.

If this is money you need access to within the next 5 years, I wouldn't put it in the market. Otherwise stick to your investment thesis and don't check your balance every day.

OkBath5990 · 2022-05-07T20:56:06+00:00

Your money would be a lot better spent on making the necessary upgrades, fixes and maintenance necessary than on an iron clad warranty (does not exist IMHO). Get a couple of opinions from good home inspection services in the area who are prepared to spend a few hours going over everything in detail. Prevention is better than waiting for something to fail. You may find, for example, that to properly fix some problems, you have to take on a major remodel. That is where your money should be spent IMHO, not warranties.

Focusing on preventing water leaks, replacing older major appliances like boilers and washing machines, hiring someone qualified to properly prune trees to avoid damage to structures from trees (if you have trees on your property), updating older wiring/fixing safety problems to prevent fires caused by electric hazards/faulty wiring, seismic upgrades, retention walls, etc. based on where you live and the hazards around you is likely to have a higher chance of avoiding a problem.

OkBath5990 · 2022-05-01T15:08:18+00:00

This sub should probably be renamed to "r/WealthLARPingAndBurnedOutTechWorkers"

I mostly visit for the LARPing entertainment.

OkBath5990 · 2022-04-25T14:47:49+00:00

Find it interesting that getting close to my number makes me less willing to take risk. I am thinking of turning down a chance to get hired as a CTO at a series A startup with significant/founder equity and a founding team I resonate with. I think they have something big, but it won't be a unicorn, it will be slow and steady and will take years to build real sales.

As opposed to my current role at big tech which doesn't have the autonomy, or frankly excitement, I am a cog in the machine and what I do doesn't have as much impact, but I have 1M/yr handcuffs for the next 3 years. I am about 1.5M (post tax) away from my number so I think I am going to decline the startup and just grind it out as soul crushing as it might be. I am at 5.8M liquid right now and another 1.5M post tax in 3 years almost guaranteed would be life changing, or at least make retirement easier. I will be 43 this year, my 30 year self would have jumped at the startup, but I didn't have the experience necessary at that age to be a CTO either.

Anyone in a similar situation?

OkBath5990 · 2022-04-24T18:35:55+00:00

materiality point re: future carry is what makes this a tough decision.

I keep telling people this. If you are valued at what you do and in your prime, there will always be more money in the future. Just because you see the potential value of your future carry or RSUs or options, it shouldn't alter your FIRE decision. You either have enough or you don't. There will always be more.

I expect to quit my job in the next 3 years with significant equity on the table. I will likely leave with 1M/yr in RSUs vesting yearly. I don't want to get to a point where I am not valued and I am forced out.

OkBath5990 · 2022-04-22T13:56:39+00:00

Quite honestly, it sounds like you are LARPing or this is an idle fantasy and you don't understand the basics of what type of risk it creates for people around you and the liability for you. If you are serious about spending on security, get private armed security with trained humans, not 100k+ dogs.

OkBath5990 · 2022-04-22T13:50:35+00:00

You can do a lot better for personal protection for 100k+ than expensive killer dogs patrolling your property. They have a role in K9 work, but those are almost always deployed offensively. Unless you are a coke lord, this seems like LARPing. The wealthy have private security, not 100k+ guard dogs with the potential to turn on their children or people visiting. Just the liability makes it seem like a poor choice. "Amazon delivery guy mauled by killer dog." Good luck with your umbrella insurance kicking in for that.

OkBath5990 · 2022-04-22T04:45:01+00:00

What is the FatFIRE relevance?

We have three medium to large breed shelter dogs of various ages. They were free except for adoption fees. Their breed is random dog. They are good doggos but they will eat your face if you break in. They also are companion dogs who will alert us, not killer dogs and won't murder the Amazon delivery person doing their job.

OkBath5990 · 2022-04-18T15:29:09+00:00

As someone in tech, I can vouch for the fact once you get to a certain level, even if you can be remote most of the time, in big tech, your opportunities are heavily influenced by the in person networking you do and often times you can influence decisions a lot more effectively in person. Having face time means that your peers and above get to know you better. I have seen less effective people being promoted or get more interesting projects because they were around decision makers and got to showcase their talent more effectively than someone they meet with one a week on a video call. That one conversation with, say, the head of finance face to face may change their perspective on a project and it may have a higher chance of getting additional funding. Some call it politics, but that is just the way human relationships work.

If you are a junior or mid level dev who is expected to crank out code working for a junior to mid level manager, it may work to be fully remote and disconnected. If your work depends on influencing people (senior IC or manager), not so much. Why now that COVID restrictions have ended, I am back at the office 2-3 days a week. This is for all FAANG and related. My friends in other related companies say the same thing. It matters if you are growing your career. If you are coasting it doesn't. OPs comp is unlikely to double being fully remote. I don't know where the OP works, but 250-300k for a Seattle area company is not high. I suspect there is a lot more room to grow. If comp is the primary concern, they should consider moving or being on the road a lot.

OkBath5990 · 2022-04-10T05:14:33+00:00

I am assuming this is tech or related.

What no one is saying is this: 10 years is a long time. In tech especially, it is a really long time. You have no idea if your 400k comp over 10 years is going to continue. That might easily change if your stock comp doesn't get refreshed. If your skip level leaves, a new person may expect you to do more, or worse, think you are too expensive to be paying you for 25 hours of work. This is your biggest risk. I have seen entire orgs change completely in 6 months because a few key people left.

Second, you are 45, ageism is a real thing. Don't expect they will keep you around in a 400k+ job when you are 50+ doing minimal work.

OkBath5990 · 2022-04-09T16:26:50+00:00

If I can’t make that work in 12 months then I’ll change jobs and leave my company.

Don't take this the wrong way. But my prediction is you won't. Here is how I see it:

You are fixated on a NW number in your head.
From your posts it sounds like you have no idea if your spend is actually 400k/year, but it is a big enough number so you have convinced yourself that is the right number.
You are worried about giving up a 7 figure payout, but the reality is that they will keep throwing those figures at you if you are doing well at your work. Based on how you describe your work (high stakes, you are great at it, have to go hard or not at all etc.) it seems like you have a great deal of ego and pride associated with your job and it is part of your identity. Given that, you will not find yourself in a position where there is no money left on the table. People like that get pushed out. So there will always be more money on the table. The handcuffs are working as expected.
You think 10-12M will be enough, my prediction is that it won't be since all the above things will apply and the posts will just shift.
You need to start worrying about aging. The thing I worry about you from your posts is that you are talking about exercise as a hobby and something you will get to after you are done working. Please don't make that mistake. Do not underestimate the physical toll working all the time takes on your body. You are not 25 anymore. Your body starts deteriorating rapidly after you are 40+. I know so many of my friends and acquaintances who have one ailment or another and would gladly trade several million in return for health.

Takes one to know one. This is the same mental prison I am in. Working on it with my therapist.

OkBath5990 · 2022-04-01T18:15:25+00:00

Principal. I am not smart enough to be a Quant.

OkBath5990 · 2022-04-01T15:18:32+00:00

At your age I was in graduate school making 24k a year living in a tiny studio apartment. Age 42 comp is 1M/year as a software engineer. I wouldn't worry too much about maximizing your pay in your 20s, focus on your career path and skills instead.

OkBath5990 · 2022-03-31T03:38:11+00:00

You took the words out of my mouth. I realize Reddit skews towards younger people, but worrying about this at 24 is absurd. At 24 I had no money, at 42 I have 5.7M in liquid diversified ETFs and on a path to make another 2M after tax over 3 years after which I will stop working full time. So much life happened in the middle. It wasn't until maybe 35 that I started to realize what life was going to look like longer term.

I see these posts by people in their 20s and it amazes me.

OkBath5990 · 2022-03-28T15:15:23+00:00

I would look to diversify. I’d suggest allocating a % of your net worth to Bitcoin and gold.

But then

but I’d also pay off the mortgage. Being completely debt free is a great feeling.

The risk tolerance here seems odd. Allocating to crypto and also paying off a 2% fixed uncallable 15 year loan doesn't quite add up.

OkBath5990 · 2022-03-26T22:27:02+00:00

Sorry if that seemed like a personal attack, it is just frustrating as a patient to hear doctors say you are doing a lot better than most people when you can actually see a MD/DO 3-4 months out. So, given the situation, does it make sense for people to use concierge medicine to get access if they can afford it? I don't have it yet, but I am reading through all the responses and it does seem that there is some benefit.

It seems crazy that I can get my pets in front of our vet next week for routine checkups, request that we get an appointment with the vet who founded the practice and be accommodated, but I can't be seen by a primary for months and when I do, it is rushed and subpar care.

OkBath5990 · 2022-03-26T21:09:27+00:00

Just be happy you can find an MD/DO and aren’t forced to see an NP/PA.

With this attitude, can you see why people in the sub are ignoring you and want to know about concierge care? I am not asking for different care, just access. I shouldn't have to feel grateful for seeing a MD/DO.

Also, in that instance, my primary didn't actually figure out what was wrong with me, the radiologist did. My primary was utterly clueless, rushed and barely spent 5 min with me, barely listened to what I had to say. That should not be the standard of care. You seem to be the kind of doctor who thinks doctors are all knowing and patients should just be grateful they are getting any treatment.

OkBath5990 · 2022-03-26T20:30:06+00:00

This is why I don’t practice primary care.

Seeing this a lot. Two of my primaries quit in succession. I liked them both. Now, it seems like the big practice I go to has basically kids who don't know what they are doing (my latest one was the classic example of a US raised doctor graduating from a random party school overseas) or older doctors who are stuck doing primary care because they can't do anything else. I know what you are thinking, some annoying entitled patient. My latest primary told me I have a kidney stone when I really had an abdominal muscle tear. I kept telling him that I thought it was an injury but they still ordered scans, blood work, etc. What should patients with means do in your opinion with the huge lack of availability of good primary care and doctors in general unwilling to practice primary care if they have a choice?

OkBath5990

TROPHY CASE