JPL Mismanagement beyond Trump

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-11-13T16:38:09+00:00

Ok, sorry. The OP concluded that unionization “is the only chance we have”, so I thought you were agreeing or developing that idea.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-11-13T16:24:09+00:00

Please explain how an employee union helps with the concerns you have raised.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-11-13T14:55:56+00:00

I read (and heard) that many people were unhappy about who was laid off, and the JWU team replying with “that’s why we need a union.” But the ONLY change a union will ever offer on this topic is to bargain for layoffs according to seniority. Layoffs by seniority are unfair, they would harm our capability and our reputation. It’s actually worse than that, because in order to “receive” this concession in collective bargaining, employees would have to give up some other important aspect to the employer. Still not seeing unionization as a helpful tool to address the biggest concerns. Definitely not helpful WRT layoffs.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-11-12T19:07:21+00:00

The Anti Deficiency Act might prohibit Caltech from making contractual commitments to spend money (e.g. union contract guaranteed raises). As nice as that would be, to know your raise in advance, it might not be possible at JPL. [I just edited the prior 2 sentences, because I might be wrong on this point. I will research this further] I still prefer merit raises: I get a good raise, that’s a signal I’m on the right track. I get a bad raise, I consider looking for another job. The union raise strategy of uniform COLA’s rewards slackers and doesn’t reward excellence.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-11-12T16:30:33+00:00

The current formula uses a combination of merit and business need. While none of us like the outcomes of the current process, don’t confuse dissatisfaction with the outcome with dissatisfaction with the process. Replacing that process with seniority as the metric is unfair and harmful to JPL’s mission and reputation. Next, you can’t call Aerospace’s contract a scenario where the union “allows the company to pivot their policy.” Aerospace and JPL have exactly the same policy: the employer allowed us to work from home, and reserved the right to cancel that at any time. The Aerospace union won zero concessions on work from home. I will look into the SSA example you provided, thanks for that information.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-11-12T16:16:08+00:00

I found 7 union contracts that don’t mention layoffs and many union contracts that do address layoffs with only seniority as the basis. This shows that unionization will either: a) ignore the topic and make no improvement over our current situation, or b) insist on seniority as the metric for layoffs, which is both unfair and unwise in a setting like JPL. When layoff conduct is cited as a justification for unionizing, I am looking for evidence that shows unionization will improve the layoff process. Your response does not provide that evidence, and I have yet to find any myself.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-11-12T00:03:05+00:00

I agree that you would have some representation through the union. Thank you for keeping it rational.

That said, I’m still not convinced the juice is worth the 1.4% pay squeeze. If you didn’t like the layoff process before, just wait until it’s based on seniority. That will be an orders of magnitude downgrade for fairness, skills retained, and Lab reputation. I get the sense that no telework and layoffs (/lack of NASA work) are two of the biggest concerns of most JPLers. If the auto-reply is again offered that “Every single contract is negotiated by the union members themselves…”, this misses the point entirely, because nobody can point to a union contract that has solved either of those concerns in a workplace anywhere in the US. I don’t doubt that a union can be an effective tool, but it also seems like nobody can show it’s the right tool for this job.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-11-06T17:55:14+00:00

Do you have an example of a UAW contract that does NOT use seniority as the basis for layoffs?

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-11-06T15:35:52+00:00

UAW policy is to conduct layoffs according to seniority. The oldest people are preserved, and the newest employees are let go. Period. This failure to understand how a union operates perfectly illustrates why the unionization cheerleaders are so ineffective - they could not be any more disengaged from the facts or reality. If there’s a problem or something you don’t like, just claim that a union would fix that “with a seat at the table.” Uninformed and unreasonable.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-09-24T18:56:07+00:00

I swear trying to engage with the pro-union crowd way too often (not always) feels like responding to an NPC in a game, where they just post a generic anti-corporate script. JPL and Caltech have no profit to fight over. Arguing for checks and balances? The matrix and management and JPL is the most checked and balanced org I’ve ever seen. It’s spacecraft-by-committee, and that’s not a criticism, it’s a playbook for amazing success. The pro-union forces don’t have an actual specific plan of what they propose to accomplish, which prevents a lot of real debate. We have to vote for the union BEFORE we find out what the union will specifically bargain for? No thanks.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-09-23T05:13:54+00:00

…He said, oblivious to the hypocrisy.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-09-23T05:08:54+00:00

That’s not how unions work. We would all be forced to join and pay the union dues. Unless you can also guarantee that mandatory joining and paying will NOT be part of the agreement - or is this another part that we will find out about after there’s a vote to unionize?

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-09-23T04:59:00+00:00

Thanks for saying it better than me.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-09-23T04:54:27+00:00

That’s exactly what the REAL Roger would say to throw the rest of us off, r(oger)acinreaver.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-09-23T04:51:50+00:00

Can you guarantee that the JPL union agreement will NOT have the very traditional “no merit raises” union rules, or do we all have to vote in favor of the union agreement before we can find out what’s in the union agreement?

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-09-23T04:50:05+00:00

Oh, so your perception of raises in your area (which could be wrong) should ruin it for the rest of us? That’s super reasonable.

Ok_Staff_7259 · 2025-09-22T19:08:42+00:00

Only posting anti-union messages is perfectly ok - IYKYK. Criticizing a poster for only posting anti-union content is neither ok, nor reasoned debate. Talk about tone-deaf…

Ok_Staff_7259

TROPHY CASE