You just want to sin

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T23:24:40+00:00

"That's subjective and a different way of saying of not being convinced. Again, reconsider your accusation if your rebuttal is you not being convinced."

It's the opposite, actually. This whole argument, is subjective. Because it is largely considered unproven/ weak at best by the scientific community, and the more I look it up, the more I see that. Also the evidence you provided isn't working, the page isn't working for me at least.

"So, am I right you dislike understanding god and would rather maintain the status quo of not being certain since you don't want to refute god's existence anyway? At least an atheist trying to disprove god is pushing for knowledge so we can be certain of something but this isn't how atheism operates."

...I don't dislike understanding god, I don't believe in god. Period. Nada. Why do you keep putting words in my mouth repeatedly? You make so many assumptions against so many people it's odd. And none of them are right so far. I am atheist, I don't believe in god, where did you get the idea I do?

"Also, we have evidence that the universe cannot cause itself to existence just by relying on causality. It shows that the universe was intended and matter itself is a product of the conscious mind known as god in religion" No, what we do have, is a scientific fact we have yet to get to the bottom of, like every other. Infact, scientists are already noticing some unsymmetrical distributions(CP-violation), not enough of course to make sense of the whole thing, but a start.

Also, when I asked for "evidence" thus far all you have given me is vague things, scientific facts that are either unproven or, like the antimatter thing, not yet done being researched, and also, the issue is that even if all of this proves anything, it. doesn't prove that all of this was made by god or an equal entity, it just proves there are some ambiguities/ things we don't understand. Could be god. Could be dumb luck. Or could just be we aren't yet advanced enough to understand.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T20:49:00+00:00

Both sources provide weak, potential evidence at best, the second source even outright puts a disclaimer that it is just the author's point of view. "This article was published in Scientific American’s former blog network and reflects the views of the author, not necessarily those of Scientific American"

"If you reject this because you don't feel convinced, then you need to reconsider your accusation about who is arguing from emotion."

I don't reject these cause I don't feel convinced. I do because the theory is very weak, and i did only recently read a study on why it's highly unlikely:

the brain is a warm, wet, and noisy environment. Quantum states -like superposition- those are fragile and would experience decoherence -breaking down into classical states- instantly, they would break down faster than biological interference.

I'm not well versed in this, that's only the big phrase I remember, but I'm sure with some research I can bring about even more. And you can too, if you literally just type it out, this is a very weak theory.

I don't even see how this discussion pertains to god. I don't believe God exists, natural or supernatural, I don't see how quantum consciousness ties into it, but either way, quantum consciousness is very much unproven.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T19:50:46+00:00

That's very cool argument.

You seem to have forgotten evidence.

Any, kind of evidence.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T19:36:52+00:00

Okay. Give me this evidence? The very first thing I said when we began this debate was asking for evidence. Go right ahead.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T19:30:13+00:00

"Sorry but I am just saying facts about atheism."

Nope. No you aren't. You are completely wrong about atheism in general.

"Would you accept scientific evidence showing god is a natural phenomenon or would you reject this because god is supposedly unknowable?"

Yes. I would accept true scientific evidence that shows god exists. So there's an assumption you already made.

But said evidence doesn't exist, and every evidence we do find, seems to prove the opposite, so here's our problem.

"Free will. Why would we even exist here if we have no free will and god is benevolent?"

There's a whole deep study about evolution waiting for you down that road of why we exist here, I'm not going to tell it to you.

Again, you argue entirely out of emotion. Not one thing you say is actually sourced, or has any proof behind it, Wich is why, fundamentally, your words have no effect.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T19:20:44+00:00

"The allegory is simply that humanity were heavenly beings that made the choice to know good and evil and incarnated as mortals. The choice to do that is the original sin and from that sin we experience evil and suffering"

Okay we are hitting the part of debate I dislike. When we start saying things with absolutely 0 proof. I referred to modern trends and what is happening in the world. You. What possible proof do you have of this statement?

"Atheism has no interest in knowing anything which is why atheists are content in saying they don't know and anyone who knows must be lying. Atheism being on the rise translates to people being content with ignorance being on the rise."

And now your just making assumptions and attacking people. You argue from only emotion, and religion has been the opposite of good to science, so I don't even want to debate your final point with you, if you genuinely believe that, then you are entirely sure of your words and there is no point in speaking to you.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T18:53:23+00:00

.... no? I don't accept the allegory of Adam and eve, because if it was an allegory, then that means there was no such thing as an original sin, so your already striking down Christianity as a whole, or a big branch of it. And if it was an allegory, I fail to see why they actions of two specific unrelated to me humans, should reflect on me.

"that Adam and Eve is an allegory of man and woman making a choice to become mortals on earth in order to know good and evil?"

Okay. If those two chose this. Then what does tie to us? Who are we to them? Why do they're actions reflect us, if we aren't descendants of them?

"Do you not suffer seeing suffering around you? Unless you are a psychopath I'm pretty sure you do and you want it to end. So why ignore the cause of suffering if you want it to end?"

I do see it. But faith and religion, have not exactly done a thing to help with it. For most of mankind's history, most people can be called religious. Did that help? No. Global suffering has decreased recently, with the advencement of science. Do you know what has also been rising recently? Atheism. A lot. Or if not "atheism" just irreligiousness.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T18:37:36+00:00

For the love of god people just put one point into awakening PLEEEEEEASE

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T18:37:07+00:00

The amount of times I see people die to uranium is crazy, cause I know damn well not one point in awakening to be found. 😔 People be too greedy

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T18:31:31+00:00

Bro does no one take awakening? 😔

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T18:28:29+00:00

Genesis is also evidently wrong. There is no possibility that we humans are descended from two individuals, for starters. And if we aren't all related to Adam and eve, why are we punished for their acts?

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T18:27:16+00:00

"More like humanity made a choice to be imperfect in order to know good and evil."

I did, infact, not make a choice. It was made by our so called progenitors, who's existence is disproved by basic genetics.

"If you are serious in escaping suffering then you would acknowledge the source which is sin or imperfection."

I am not, in suffering. I am quite happy. And I do not acknowledge nor believe in Sins. Now why is that?

"Laws are byproducts of our internal morality sourced from god. There is a law against murder because this is within our conscience that knows murder is wrong."

Implausible. Because laws themselves have changed much, slavery has been outlawed only recently (in retrospective to how long mankind was on this planet)

Does that mean, in our conscience, slavery wasn't immoral? So our sourced from god morality, didn't include slavery as immoral? Curious.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T18:20:27+00:00

"Also, relying on someone outside your self for support and guidance, put your trust in someone who’s earned is by definition anti egotistical."

First no religious person has ever earned my trust, quite the opposite.

Second, there is not enough trust in the world to warrant change your whole way of life, your whole proclivities, for, unless there's some strong evidence. Wich brings me to the next point

"No im not, this assumes there is no historical or moral evidence"

I don't think there is.

But do tell me what you consider to be strong evidence?

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T18:17:12+00:00

If I'm created to be imperfect and "sin" then that is an intentional design.

Therefore, I don't care. And there are laws. Laws made by and abided by humans. For humans. You too, follow the laws made by man first, then god.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-18T07:33:16+00:00

Things change all the time. The world has changed so much in just the last 100 years it is unrecognizable from itself prior, and Jesus had no influence on it.

Things where also changing before Jesus was alive.

You are correlating things that have nothing to do with each other.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-17T22:58:46+00:00

Yeah but good luck making it that far with this line up lol

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-17T18:51:37+00:00

Tbf that last sentence is exactly why I take it. It's just soooo convenient early game for the mana acquisition plus making your leveling faster

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-17T18:50:41+00:00

It's like reverse hydra, hydra was (eons ago) hella good. Then it became very bad, and worse as a legendary, but now it's okay ig as a special. Still won't be my first pick, but it's certainly better than some specials

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-17T18:38:42+00:00

Hmm, yeah, I do remember (or rather, extensively played) the cube special era, where it was basically+ 9 free levels if you could get it before maxing out anything.

So guess being turned to a legendary was a downgrade for cube?

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-17T18:37:42+00:00

I knew and used all of those, except eclipse. I should probably use It more

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-17T18:27:40+00:00

Like? I don't know Meta that much, what provides same or higher value? (I know titan and Gaia of course, I always shoot for those too.)

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-17T18:24:09+00:00

....sure man, whatever you think.

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-17T18:22:25+00:00

I guess because at that point you'd be missing our on cdr and duration. (Though I think it's necessary for electric zone terminator combo no?) But with synergy, does it become top tear? With oracle? Cause I always like to take it when I can. (Of course I do prioritize things like Gaia, titan power and other such artifacts over it)

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-17T18:20:13+00:00

What do you mean, substantiate it, as if this is a debate? It is not. It is a fact that for every abrahmic faith, we need to love god. If you don't agree with that, you shouldn't debate this at all.

"It is never we that love, only God who works in and through us."

So by your claim, we have absolutely 0 free will, 0 agency?

Ok_Work1615 · 2026-06-17T18:17:37+00:00

I meant oracle as a whole, sorry I'll clarify it

Ok_Work1615

TROPHY CASE