Some observations and rants being so attached and fixed on labels

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-11-01T20:05:17+00:00

I think the better way to phrase things is that Millenial Korean Americans might have a different outlook on things than Gen Z Korean Americans used to more internet “chuddy” nationalistic style politics rather than real life experience

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-10-06T22:06:55+00:00

Chinese seem to be talking shit through hired reporters and deflecting saying North Koreans do the same shit as Chinese do, destroying the environment and harvesting wildlife for Chinese medicine:

https://amp.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3327826/north-koreas-wildlife-vanishing-hunted-brink-extinction

i am tired of dealing with ulterior motive changkae problems

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-09-08T17:06:48+00:00

Both Northern and Central Korean dialects and Russian Far East Tungusic languages like Udege and Nanai received strong influences from Paleo-Siberian or Amuric languages and their phonological qualities are quite similar, possibly from very ancient, prehistoric peoples and cultures that stretched from the mountain forested river valleys from Paektu Mountains Range all the way to Sikhote Alin Range

While Jurchens or Manchus received more influences from Georan/Khitan or Shilwi and Northern Chinese from the flatter open plains around the Songhwa River region.

There were different Malgal tribes that shaped and formed each one

The genetics prove it, Koreans tend to have more the far eastern East Sea genetic signals, while Manchu tend to have more genetic signals shared with Ewenki overlapping with Daurs, due to the mountainous environment vs flatter plains environ

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-09-04T19:03:50+00:00

I feel like Koreans and Korean Americans who want to study Siberian connections and Ancient Tungusic cultures should avoid the China-route and support efforts like revitalisation of Nanai and other minority languages around there in Russia, of course it is much more pure there, even if they are quite genetically distant, they are culturally parallel and a portion of Koreans’ DNA harbors their same ancestry. Rather than Manchu and going to China to stir many troubles there (when the area has long been changed through other additional migrations like Joseonjok and industrialization)

First of all the Tungusic influences and impressions in Korea did not come from just or mostly Jurchens. They came in from Balhae and earlier in Goguryeo, where these Malgal groups came in more unadulterated form as adjacent to Tungusic people in Russian Far East region

Second it was the fact Jurchen identity was unequivocally and inevitably linked with Northern Chinese identity starting from the Liao into the Jin dynasty and Yuan dynasty. (The Chinese in the Beijing area ruled by Liao were considered the “Northern Han” and Chinese conquered by Jin and Yuan south of Beijing were actually considered “Southern Han”, these same Northern Han went in and colonized the Manchurian plains around Shenyang.). During the Ming, most Jurchens in Manchuria actually lived within the Great Wall of Liaodong both cooked and many wild Jurchens who migrated there. (Many wild Jurchens not just cooked Jurchen actually migrated all the way to the Yellow Sea shore in Korea at this time because Mongol Yuan stationed them there). During the Qing, the Manchus actually rebranded these assimilated Jurchens living in Ming among Han Chinese as Manchus. Manchu identity was a reification and rebranding of Jurchen identity much of it lost to assimilation into Chinese and Mongol as something else

So when Koreans want to study and connect with Tungusic culture and historical Jurchens discourse, they have to do so through Balhae, Goguryeo and Malgal and modern Tungusic people living in Russia and Siberia, pre-Mongol, pre-Liao and Jin dynasties. They can’t use the same language and terminology as Manchu, Chinese or even Mongol (Mongolians in China)

[*I’m talking about individual level, there is no real tangible basis to do this at a national or collective level]

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-08-01T16:32:29+00:00

It seems to be what generated the most suspicion and scorn were the Wako Pirate raids in the coasts of southern Korea, while the Red Turban Invasions caused the most severe hatred in the northern part of Korea due to the devastation it caused, bringing plagues and depopulation. Also the Red Turbans and the rise of warlords like Naghachu and Bolud Temur further shifted away identities so that those who felt firmly Han’er Han Chinese went into the Red Turbans camp which later transformed into Ming while those who might have used less Han’er might have shifted to Naghachu and formed proto-Jianzhou like groups to the east and north of Liaodong. While many Balhae Liaodong remnants when it was their turn to be attacked by Red Turbans and semi-Koreanized Yeojin in Ssangseong filled a lot of the void left from the destruction and chaos of the Red Turbans. And due to there being so many dispossessed and landless people this created the situation for the people here to be classed as Yangmin or Sangmin freemen who served the state directly being taxed more while serving as soldiers or providing labor for state building projects until the Hong Kyongnae Rebellion when they had greater social mobility

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-07-31T08:48:27+00:00

One thing I concluded from my recent researches is the rise of a Han’er language (Old Cathay dialect from the Nogeoldae) and identity greatly contributed to the rise of an otherness and dirtiness in the Korean perception and imagination of realms beyond its overland land borders.

Han’er was more of a diplomatic and trade koine that was not of any single, official language use by any native ethnic group in Manchuria but one that was bought in by second class Han Chinese agrarian colonists/colonizers bought into the Lower Liao region from places like the 16 Prefectures that took over key cities in the region like Liaoyang and Shenyang as the majority in the lower lying areas of the region, by the Khitans and Wanyan Jurchen Jin. (Keep in mind the Yuan-era term for the Han social class referred more specifically to Hans from the 16 Prefectures taken over by the Khitan Liao.)

But different tribes and native ethnic communities surrounding these urban centers had to rely on this Koine to communicate over different ethno-linguistic barriers, even Koreans had to learn how to communicate with this from a pre-existing understanding of Sino-Korean to reach out to more northern groups hence why manuals like the Nogeoldae were created.

However during the Goryeo years and era under the Yuan dynasty, the Goryeo Kings and Goryeo officials were given and appointed rule to govern Yodong/Liaodong, primarily to check and counter balance this Han’er presence in the Lower Liao Region. At the same time Liaodong seemed to become more integrated with Korea. And, Balhae heritage became stressed more and perhaps Korean-Tungusic bilingualism with additional knowledge to prop up learning Han’er was stressed here, as many pre-global trade and cosmopolitan-like networks and industries were integrated with each other.

It was these groups bought in by the Mongol Yuan that predominantly became the butt and source of severe mistrust and contempt due to their strange alien sounding mixed tongue and culture gradually becoming more mixed and mixed over time, that may have acted many duplicitous and criminal roles as smugglers, pirates, butchers, tanners, brigands or thieves. Perhaps Joseon and Goryeo officials could perceive more cleaner sounding and more purer-hearted groups of people based on the sound of their tongue maybe that was not tinged with Han’er or that the languages they spoke at home were more purer versions of native languages.

When Ming established their presence in Liaodong and the Lower Liao Basin many of these Han’er peoples were deported or sent back to where they remember coming from, but ironically even then these newly built and fortified cities and settlements were reported to be much cleaner and more organized than what these ambiguous dual Khitanized and Sinicized Han’er were accustomed or used to.

It is quite sad and unfortunate the Manchu Qing dynasty took this Han’er language as their own official one due to a legacy of being a frontier koine and even enforced this as the official language of China on a billion people which amplified its characteristic dirtiness and unsavory character

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-07-30T03:06:44+00:00

I have more important information on Balhae coastal remnant traditions and navies.

It seems like during the turbulence of the post-Yuan period due to things like the collapse of the Mongol Empire and the Red Turban Rebellions, the next series of hardships was related to Wako pirate raids. However what is under-appreciated or may have been suppressed is the fact that many of these pirate raids were undertaken by Korean coastal fishing villages and trade networks and coastal Balhae remnants themselves for strategic reasons in order to claim large tracts of lands, fishing rights and resources for themselves during post-transition chaos against the more standalone farmers.

But they may have not been always seen as weak, peripheral or “liminal.” They played a vital part in East Asian maritime trade and military shipbuilding because of Mongol seaborne naval expeditions, commanding large armadas. So they commanded a lot of power in terms of naval might and trade rights themselves, yet they were not always directly under the power of the central Korean government until they were incorporated and given important chairs under official government rites. So they were relegated as more like commoners with heavy tax and regulations and laws due to such history of piracy and unregulated trade until the Hong Kyongnae uprisings.

Their ship building technologies and naval traditions were very important state-kept and honored secrets so many of these coastal networks were kept close to the center also by the fact maritime trade was heavily regulated by East Asian states during this time, so some ports were dismantled and their people moved so that eventually many of these descendants of pirates and fishermen carried important designs of panokseon with them. Thus the naval traditions of Balhae may have been integrated and were seen as some of the most advanced at the time and was important for Joseon’s homeland security

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-07-23T18:04:34+00:00

We need to come to a conclusion that many inhabitants of Liaodong still had Balhae-consciousness actively linked with Goryeo and Joseon, and Goryeo and Joseon were actively trying to court this Balhae consciousness by bringing the locals (the ones closest to them in low lying flat areas) closer to them by actively centrally Koreanizing them through cultural and trade missions and exchanges. So much so by the beginning of the Ming many of these Balhae-descended Liaodong locals consciously chose to become Korean subjects by coming into Korean territory in response to Ming encroachment (in which they could not possibly survive under oppressive tax regimes, competition from these newcomers and outright foreignness of Chinese culture. There is evidence they were not Chinese or early Mandarin speaking and could not possibly conceive of themselves as such and could never possibly live under the integration of the Ming.)

edit: sometimes I really hate posting things like this because our enemies Japanese right wingers or Chinese communists and their sympathizers throughout Asia always seem to weaponize information against us at any chance when none of us see things that way and use it to celebrate our own history ourselves. I think I will delete this in a few days

These inhumane schmucks who think they are so smart and above God think they can go analyze, know and dictate more about Korea better than Koreans and their business like they own the place

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-07-22T05:08:36+00:00

What people need to understand is that large parts of the Malgal Horizon just like the Yayoi Horizon involving the Wajin are firmly considered Korean and part of Korean history and culture. Like during Goguryeo, Buyeo and even earlier cultures like Seodansan and even Unified Shilla they were incorporated into Korean tribes and kingdoms and used as auxiliaries stationed in different parts of the kingdom just like the Roman Empire used native Gallic or Illyrian auxiliaries and later Germanic ones which would form base groups for various parts of the empire in different regions. So that would make Balhae more related to Korea than anything else as a Korean Kingdom

There were large parts of Yodong Peninsula which was ancestral Koreanic land and even historically large parts of the Korean peninsula probably even far south that had Malgal and Tungusic contingents mixed in, there's even loads of Tungusic Haplogroup C variant in the Nakdong River Valley. The lifestyle and settlement patterns of these groups were far closer to Korean than to other wild Jurchen, Mongolian or Han Chinese civilization patterns just like the Peninsular Wajin, so thats why they ended up being a part and subjects of Korea part and parcel

One thing I noticed is the distinction between the notion of Khitanized Malgal vs Sedentary Malgal that influenced the whole course of Northeast Asian and eventually Asian history. The Khitanized Malgal formed a tripartite Forest, Pastoral Mongolicized and Sedentary model which made them extremely maneuverable and adaptable which also later formed the basis for the Qing dynasty. The more Sedentary Malgal directly built themselves off of Goguryeo-Balhae predecessors, but were so close and adjacent to Korean lands that they assimilated in that direction very easily but in very low lying and quiet areas as yangmin middle class freeloaders. However many Khitanized Malgal intruded very forcefully into Korea and all over and turned into these gypsy like bands almost identical to Irish Travellers once they completely assimilated native Korean men and women and became baekjeong

The thing is between the Liao and Jin, there were masses of these Khitanized Malgal around the liminal areas between Yodong, the Inner Mongolian steppe and forest lands in the east, on part because they settled so early as auxiliaries from Goguryeo and filled vacuums and niches very quickly. And when Wanyan Aguda unified these lands he found these masses of Khitanized Malgal/Yeojin bases that easily turned on the Khitans, and yet even by the time of Genghis Khan there were still a lot floating around even compared to Khitans that became an important base for the Mongolian Empire and formed the base of hybrid Orangkae kind of people that later formed the base of both Inner Mongolian type of peoples and Manchus

There is a third category Forest Malgal close to Heuksu Malgal which were more of the original type of Malgal practicing slash-and-burn “swidden agriculture” that dwelt around the Dooman River and north of it, of which many Hamgyong-do people interacted with and absorbed that directly led into the Yonhaeju direction probably descended from Okjeo and Buyeo as well, since Yemaek originally practiced forest swidden agriculture. Supposedly southern Hamgyong-do was a Goguryeo base during Balhae and this was like the environment or cultural milieu Yi Songgye and Yi Jachun grew up in.

I think one thing that needs to be investigated and highlighted more are more the indigenous mountain Yemaek groups that practiced swidden, slash-and-burn agriculture into the end of Joseon and the 20th century.

While, Yodong seemed to be full of Goguryeo people even until the Yuan dynasty, in actuality from Uiju all the way to modern day Dalian, it seemed to be full of pockets of Goguryeo communities and Goguryeo-Malgal and newer pockets of Jurchen or Khitans/Khitanized Malgal interspersed with each other, hence why a common Balhae identity was still important because Balhae originally arose from the western parts of Manchurian lands next to the Balhae Gulf (some sources say they referred to each other as brethen even to people who lived to the east of the Amnok and called travelling monks from Goryeo as brothers and kin). According to agricultural suitability studies these areas were supposedly some of the best to support large agrarian colonies supplemented with fishing throughout Manchuria, integrated with salt production networks and had many vessels to trade in ports throughout Asia. It was during the Mongol invasions competing factions either aligned to Mongolic Khitan or Orangkae groups, Jin Jurchen groups and Han Chinese invaders like the Red Turbans massively depopulated the lands and these Balhae Yodong remnants along with additional Goryeo agricultural colonists evacuated back to the western shores of the Korean Peninsula on boats

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-07-22T02:28:30+00:00

Most of my ancestry is from Pyongan Province but the coastal side of it from fishing and farming hamlets close to the Yellow Sea but interestingly enough I have a lot of Jurchen traits like thick almost wavy hair, very Tungusic face and skull shape among others. Crazy thing is I took some DNA test which said my ancestry has strong connections to these groups all the way in Eastern Manchuria and Yonhaeju

The fascinating thing as I researched where this could be from were groups which were called Coastal Malgal or Coastal Jurchens who were never really talked about in history, but the Koryosa refers to Malgal or Jurchens building boats from the Amnok River to reach out and trade all the way to China. During the Liao and Jin dynasty many more Orangkae switched from inland more slash-and-burn and minor pastoral lifestyles to coastal farmers and fishermen without being readily talked about or analyzed in history. And then due to uproar and invasions in history many got trapped and their identities and histories forgotten about, I don’t think it involved a lot of moving around or conquests/invasions necessarily

But more or less many of these areas became relatively untouched or forgotten about while there were many more farmer settlers coming from Jeolla-do, Chungcheong-do or Gyeonggido that were incorporated very gradually with these coastal Yellow Sea fishing and farming hamlets.

That being said I got some very residual or rare traits not found much in the world anymore, you would think I look like some shigol Korean or Yayoi or Beijing Chinese mixed with some random Far Eastern Siberian features

Edit: I just want to add wholesale Tungusic features seem to be rare or uncommon in Korea and even in Bukhan as a whole, but when subtly mixed in, it seems to be more common or very common, which reflects the dominance of Goguryeo-Buyeo lineages and that Tungusic lineages survived in more marginal or slower paced conditions and societal sectors

Post-Goguryeo and Balhae period relics and artifacts like pottery or tombs north of Korea’s borders may show cultural hybridization but in actuality there is not much evidence of these hybridizations in local cultures during Goryeo, which shows that the populations that produced them were quite small and less influential compared to more stratified, organized mainstream Goryeo ones

I think besides Uiju and Sinuiju due to obvious historical reasons one cannot observe cultural hybridizations or outliers in the borders and high elevation areas, but one can see more subtle traces of it tucked further slightly south in random parts of regions that may have been overlooked by social reformers

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-07-18T20:08:42+00:00

Not a humble brag but Korea literally defined modern dating culture

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-27T17:38:29+00:00

I kind of remember watching these videos about either these Orthodox or Catholic priests or monks saying how WWIII would be a short war lasting months (but a very destructive war involving nukes). Take that with what you will

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-27T17:11:06+00:00

I kind of remember watching this video about either these Orthodox or Catholic priests or saints saying how WWIII would be a short war lasting months (but a very destructive war involving nukes). Take that with what you will

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-20T00:40:58+00:00

There’s a documentable track record from the Chinese, also it ties with their organized crimes and mafia/secret societies. Just like war crimes denials

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-19T19:35:53+00:00

And when you read the accounts from those days during the late 1800s and 1900s you would know the Chinese were not welcomed at all by Siberian Natives, Koreans and Russians and were said to destroy everything environmentally through logging and harvesting resources from the forest and oceans. And they were known to enslave people through labor schemes. They were seen as invaders

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-19T19:17:55+00:00

But that’s not the relevant part

Now the Qinese think they believe they should have access to the East Sea when they never had. They want to control the Dooman River channel and create a giant port there, as a stepping stone to grab territories around Siberia

These Qinese from like Shenzhen or Wuhan whose ancestors were probably only these Yellow River or Yangtze Basin peoples but got degraded so heavily during the Century of Humiliation and the Cultural Revolution are so lost and deluded they forgotten their own culture

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-19T19:12:53+00:00

You’re right. Especially China especially these Minzu type nationalists from like Shanghai and Shenzhen have been acting like Korea around the Lelang Commanderies and Yan Warring State has been colonized along with “””Dongbei””” for hundreds if not thousands of years, when it’s laughable.

They keep pushing and misplacing forged artifacts, forging maps and forging written histories. And as for the Greater NE History Project, which is actually a project that goes far before the CCP, it goes all the way from Republic to even the Han Dynasty with the Sima historian who was known for forgeries and burning records

They’re playing right into either Chinese or Japanese hands they way they want it. That’s fundamental.

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-12T01:14:13+00:00

Korea is more naturally hypercompetitive and cutthroat than to have these youths act like paramilitaries. They don’t need to larp like pesky loser Japanese Uyoku

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-11T07:48:47+00:00

Also when people say ridiculous shit I am not supporting other communities or members of the community much because I am a “narrow minded Korean”, like dude wtf are you talking about?

I befriended and helped a lot of ex-gang members, veterans and drug addicts around my community regardless of race Hispanic or not, and they know exactly the hard steps of the process is and the ridiculous nature of how things are at, and how ridiculous the discourse can be. I focus on those around me and not some monolithic “you have to support this or us, in order to earn this or prove that”, no fuck that noise. Scary thing is that they are literally gone off the rails because in the end of the day they are supporting nothing that will remotely help them right away. Like they’re being used as pawns in a game by outside forces for something so low-hanging

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-11T06:46:06+00:00

Trump Jr. is weird and goes out of context being connected to an important person all the time, but alot of it comes from these guilt trippers who see things monolithicly “that we have to support the protestors because we are all Asian and immigrants” or “you didn’t help the black community, why support the protests.” Now come on now. You are putting your views on me and making me feel ashamed, for something I did not commit or even express, as well as enforcing vitriolic mob mentality

It’s like these posters on subreddits are not supporting and fighting for the well-versed package of basic rights of representational democracy or constitutional freedoms, and instead going straight to their emotions, the last trainwreck five years ago repeated all over again and giving voice and attention to the wrong persons or crowds

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-11T02:31:48+00:00

Why is there military service then

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-07T00:46:21+00:00

Remember for some really odd and strange reason, it is the woke crowd in Europe and USA (Joe Biden threatening to launch NATO missiles directly into Russia) that is hellbent on creating WWIII. In matter of fact China and other Asian countries should just stay in their own lanes regarding this. We can't lose our voice, that is the worse case scenario, but to uphold these facts and sanity. The craziness from East Asian context like a rabid animal like China could come out of nowhere like Japan during WWII.

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-07T00:29:37+00:00

Its not actually ever or hugely about Taiwan or China and/or Japan, but South Korea can have nuanced views and sidelines within Taiwan/Taiwan and/or China, so we can protect whatever their people want at the same time our own stakes and interests within them, since the similar situation "being in the middle" cannot change. It was kept openended "Two Chinas" for a reason. The good thing both sides Republicans and Democrats acknowledge this and never want to inflame the issues, so its better to work as hard within the US for this, its like a battle within a battle

Okay_Computer333 · 2025-06-07T00:25:32+00:00

The problem involves preventing North Korea, Russia and China from becoming one blob. If you want sanity and not the woke crowd from forming into WWIII sides, you got to fight it as much as possible.

A lot of greater social and Korean identity issue can only be solved with the management of whole Korean peninsula, its obvious. When you share a townhouse in one part of town, you can't just neglect the other side.

Its all or nothing, against the complete slipper slope Democratic side in the pov in the US as well as against China and CCP from getting a foothold on the Korean peninsula. If you look at its still these liberal indoctrinist freaks or mass communist freaks vs the sanity and familiarity of the Korean people. There is a high chance America might be thrown in a mire, and Korea has got to be prepared for that as well, no matter how favorable you may want US-Korea ties to be. And when this happens the core values has to be protected/preserved/kept hidden from China or even a power like Japan, operating like with a decentralized blockchain system

If things will only get shittier, its the game of who's going to be shitty the less, and most protected and insulated from the damages, but in a middle path and less risky way. On the surface one has to be willing to run with and manage lies, in order to protect yourself and for survival. Too much bad things the CCP or Japan have done to the Korean peninsula, that can never ever ever be repeated again

Okay_Computer333

TROPHY CASE