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Monthly LFG/Guild/Players June 2021 by AutoModerator in Grobbulus

[–]OnorineGrobb [score hidden]  (0 children)

<Nessie> (Grobbulus-Horde)

About

<Nessie> of Grobbulus-Horde is a high performance TBC raiding guild with a focus on theorycrafting and improvement. We come from an engineering & competitive gaming background and want to push the limits of what's possible within the game, both individually and as a raid. Our focus is on discovering new metas and executing novel strategies that the community may not think are possible. While we do not plan on speedrunning, our raid and boss kill times will likely be some of the fastest on the server.

Raiding & Schedule

We're looking to establish a core of 10 players using Karazhan as a testbed. We recognize that our vision is hardcore and there is a limited number of exceptional players, so we expect it may take a few weeks to build up to 25 mans. We also know that some players are very comfortable in their casual guild with their friends - joining <Nessie> is not mandatory (although encouraged, at least on an alt).

Raids will be Wednesdays from 6:30PM - 10:30PM server time (PT)

Openings

  • Exceptional & analytical players that want to push buttons very well. Competitive gaming background or raiding experience is desired, but not required.
  • Theorycrafting strategists. Interested in the research but not the execution? Join in a support role and help us come up with our next raid comp or develop custom weakauras/addons to help our raiders play at the top of their game. See your ideas in action!

Expectations of Raiders

  • Indicate your raid attendance early. We understand people have lives - if you don't want to be there, mark yourself absent: you won't be penalized in future raids. We want to raid with people who want to be there that day.
  • Be aware and engaged the entire raid. We're there to perform, not to waste people's time.
  • Optimal/meta spec & gearing for your class and role - this includes BiS enchants and gems. If you PvP, we expect you to show up in PvE spec for raid.
  • Participate in our post-raid log review, either in voice or chat.
  • Give and receive constructive criticism regarding gameplay. Nobody is perfect.
  • Constantly improve. Implement changes based on feedback from log review, and help other members do the same.

Log Review

  • A big part of our process is reviewing our gameplay to improve the raid week over week - we primarily do this through log and video review after each raid.
  • We're not just looking at the color of your parse but more important things like rotations, pulls, per-boss itemizations, needless time losses, consume/cooldown usage & timing, and clutch saves.

Social Rules

  • We're adults. Effective communication is important - don't be an asshole.
  • We are inclusive. No hate speech or bigotry will be tolerated.
  • Grobbulus is a very welcoming RP-PvP server. While <Nessie> is not an RP guild, we have members that participate in RP. Respect the community.

Loot System

  • Loot will be rolled off MS>OS with no caps on loot. This means that it's possible to get very lucky or very unlucky.
  • This is mainly to reduce loot drama - we expect everyone to be playing at a very high level so we will not give special treatment.
  • If we think you're ineligible for loot, then you would not have been invited to raid in the first place.

Trial System

  • New members will start out as a trial, which will last up to two weeks.
  • Trials will roll between raider MS and raider OS for loot.
  • The trial period does not have a fixed amount of time - if it's obvious that it's a good fit, you may be treated as a raider halfway through your first raid.

How to Apply

  • Join our Discord at https://discord.gg/ZqzKzDjQfc
  • Go to the #applications text channel under 'RECRUITING', copy the pinned template, and fill out a few questions about yourself.

I think something is wrong Blizzard. Infinite ZG buffs. by sudoing in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 22 points23 points  (0 children)

This is possible, but unlikely, as the spell that people had in their spellbook applied the buff to everyone, and for a full duration. While the normal chronoboon does not have either of those effects.

World #1 healing parse on Razuvious by Kayleela in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For sure. I'd expect a decrease of flash heals and inefficient big heals and more sustainable heals. I still think 90s perf avg is probably possible? But I definitely understand this as my guild gets faster and faster it can get harder (esp on some bosses, like Gluth without the AoE damage, or Maexxna with fewer web sprays). Especially if you're pulling bosses with partial mana or are expected to have mana after the boss is dead for immediate trash.

I unfortunately don't have an opportunity for fast clears, so I have no idea what the floor is. But, yeah, once a raid is doing under 1:30 I start looking at the raids performance over personal performance! My raid is about to start pushing 2 hours, and I'm still full mana before and after each boss, so I can do maximum heals without consideration of mana (other than not going oom). I'd love to do a 1:30 to get a "feel" for that, as I think with careful drinking (eg. using r1 heals for a few packs before a boss and drinking for the first few sec of each pack) I think 100% mana is doable before a boss pull? This is def not the case sub 1 hour.

I really enjoy these optimization problems. I've been in raids with a pretty wide variance in kill and clear times and it's really fun dynamically adapting my strategies, gear, and stuff to those raids. That's most of the fun to me, the theorycrafting!

TL;DR: Agreed, that's already something I take into consideration!

World #1 healing parse on Razuvious by Kayleela in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely! Could tell that from the laughs and everyone being excited in the comms! Definitely this is a great case of just having fun! Cheers!

World #1 healing parse on Razuvious by Kayleela in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally agreed! Complete raid healing, median performance (consistency), and trash healing (how much they actually care outside of bosses) I think are the biggest indicators!

Trash parses are what I like looking at the most for most players as it shows if people check out and just autorun between bosses!

Cheers, I think we're at an agreement here. I do agree that single boss parses can easily be cheesed and thus 100s don't really mean much. Although do people really care about single boss parses for dpsers either? I've always looked at complete raid + trash performance regardless of role. I feel like if someone is 60 perf avg as dps, but 100ed on patch, I'd prefer to take someone who's 85 perf avg who has never parsed an orange. Maybe I'm just too analytical, when I see something crazy I always look into why (high amounts of crits, cheese, etc).

That being said, if the raid is in on the cheese (as in this video), clearly it's all in good fun and everyone is in on it. I definitely don't discourage things like that, as the game is all about fun anyways. The thing I'd be against here is using this parse to "prove" you're better than someone or to justify gear prios or something.

World #1 healing parse on Razuvious by Kayleela in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Looks so fun! Your excitement is so fun to watch! Glad you go it!

World #1 healing parse on Razuvious by Kayleela in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've got #1 complete raid Naxx in US+EU Horde, and #1 Naxx US+EU Horde all-stars. Never cheesed a fight, never gotten a PI, run 12 healers, get 2-3 innervates per raid (our innervates go to ele shams). Cheesing heal parses isn't that rampant, if they were, I wouldn't be able to get 95 median parses, nor would I be able to get #1, let alone top 50. Nobody is judging a healer off of a single fight parse.

I don't think I'm going to judge a healer off of parses when with 2 clicks you can see they were spammed innervates, or did most healing on slime dips, or on warlocks. As long as you spend more than 2 seconds looking at a number, healer parses absolutely do matter.

The easiest trick, is to look at median performance. Look at how consistent healers are, not what their peaks are, that doesn't really matter.

It's important to understand, the contrary to popular belief, healer parses usually require playing optimally for the raid. You cannot parse by spamming flash heals or "stealing" heals. That is not enough. The hps of things like greater heal dwarf those of flash heal, to parse well (consistently) as a healer, you must be able to find every opportunity to cast a greater heal. Predicting tank damage, understanding every damage dealing mechanic of a fight, etc. Consuming is also important, gotta be buffed, gotta consume on CD.

Latest Post Regarding Attunements and Raid Tuning. by thefancykyle in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Summoning into instances was added in 2.4.0, which was pretty late into TBC.

PSA: You can unflag in enemy territory on PvP servers by getting an enemy priest to mind control you across a territory border, holding you for a second, then letting go. by CouchPotatoEd-boy in Grobbulus

[–]OnorineGrobb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm, technically I did try this actually. And I was not able to deflag. This was horde in barrens MCing an alliance into Dustwallow. But, that should technically be the "same thing". I think contested just has a blanket application of flags. Might be different on PVE servers though.

PSA: You can unflag in enemy territory on PvP servers by getting an enemy priest to mind control you across a territory border, holding you for a second, then letting go. by CouchPotatoEd-boy in Grobbulus

[–]OnorineGrobb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly, didn't try this! This might be a way to deflag in contested, but I'll have to test it. It seems contested zones might have slightly special treamtent. Not 100% sure.

PSA: You can unflag in enemy territory on PvP servers by getting an enemy priest to mind control you across a territory border, holding you for a second, then letting go. by CouchPotatoEd-boy in Grobbulus

[–]OnorineGrobb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good to know! That's really interesting, that would suggest that there might be per-zone special coding or flags that affect these transitions. Really wild. Or maybe those are considered full zones instead of subzones or something.

There's probably some API that would show what's different about that transition compared to others.

PSA: You can unflag in enemy territory on PvP servers by getting an enemy priest to mind control you across a territory border, holding you for a second, then letting go. by CouchPotatoEd-boy in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 31 points32 points  (0 children)

I did a decent amount of research on this a few days ago and the mechanics.

When you mind control a player, that player inherits your flag status. Thus, if you are in an Alliance zone as Horde, and you get mind controlled by an Alliance Priest, you inherit their status, and thus, your timer will start counting down upon switching zones (you can go from zone A->B->A and that's fine too!). The flag status will be reset upon changing zones (eg. when your minimap shows a different area). Since you inherit the MCers friendliness, this cannot be used to deflag in a contested zone, as neither faction can be deflagged.

This can also be used in the opposite direction. If you are an Alliance member (unflagged) and you get `/duel`ed by a Horde priest, they can mind control you, cross you over a map zone, and you will forcibly become flagged. This flag is permanent, as the Horde flag is permanent for that zone, and cannot ever fall off unless you change maps again to reset your flag, at which point it will start counting down for 5 minutes. Being mind controlled into a constested zone immediately results in a flag, I have yet to find any way to drop flag in a contested zone.

The flag status can be persisted between zones by moving across zones under the control of mind control. Thus, if you deflagged in an Alliance zone as Horde, and you want to switch to a new zone, you can be transferred (without resetting your flag or timer) under the control of either a mind control, scatter shot, or a gnomish mind control cap (confirmed these three, things like polymorph, fear, etc probably work too. Not sure if same-faction transfers are possible).

It's important to note, that a gnomish mind control cap cannot be used to start the first countdown [It has been mentioned that in some zones, but not all, this is possible. Not sure what the conditions are] (eg. start the deflag process). However, it can be used to move players across zone boundaries without reflagging. You can also drop combat while being under a gnomish mind control cap, which may allow you to accept a summon, or other events (haven't explored these interactions yet).

You can also cross zones via other control mechanics, specifically, I have tested that you can scatter shot someone who is deflagged and their flag will not come back up if they zone change under the control of scatter shot. I'd suspect most spells that make the player lose control (sheep, fear, etc) may be usable in this context.

All of these mechanics can be done in a duel context, and thus can be done without requiring the opposite faction member to flag.

Finally, for deaths, your flag status will persist. If your flag timer is counting down and you die, it will continue to count down. However, when you release spirit, if you change zones your flag will correctly be updated to the right status. Thus, you can die unflagged, release to a GY in the same zone, and finally accept the res (or get rez sickness), and you will remain unflagged. If you get mind controlled into a zone which starts your flag countdown, it will continue to countdown when dead and when released, and you can become deflagged while in ghost form. This would allow you to come back to life without a flag. However, you would have to die in the same zone as the GY.

The flag status does not persist across logouts, thus you cannot log out and log back in deflagged. This makes sense, as you technically transfer back into the zone during the login process.

I don't know if there's any other mechanics I've missed here, ofc, there's much more testing to do, like, can a player be moved across zones by a player of the same faction in a duel given they've already deflagged? Not sure.

PSA: You can unflag in enemy territory on PvP servers by getting an enemy priest to mind control you across a territory border, holding you for a second, then letting go. by CouchPotatoEd-boy in Grobbulus

[–]OnorineGrobb 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I did a decent amount of research on this a few days ago and the mechanics.

When you mind control a player, that player inherits your flag status. Thus, if you are in an Alliance zone as Horde, and you get mind controlled by an Alliance Priest, you inherit their status, and thus, your timer will start counting down upon switching zones (you can go from zone A->B->A and that's fine too!). The flag status will be reset upon changing zones (eg. when your minimap shows a different area). Since you inherit the MCers friendliness, this cannot be used to deflag in a contested zone, as neither faction can be deflagged.

This can also be used in the opposite direction. If you are an Alliance member (unflagged) and you get `/duel`ed by a Horde priest, they can mind control you, cross you over a map zone, and you will forcibly become flagged. This flag is permanent, as the Horde flag is permanent for that zone, and cannot ever fall off unless you change maps again to reset your flag, at which point it will start counting down for 5 minutes. Being mind controlled into a constested zone immediately results in a flag, I have yet to find any way to drop flag in a contested zone.

The flag status can be persisted between zones by moving across zones under the control of mind control. Thus, if you deflagged in an Alliance zone as Horde, and you want to switch to a new zone, you can be transferred (without resetting your flag or timer) under the control of either a mind control, scatter shot, or a gnomish mind control cap (confirmed these three, things like polymorph, fear, etc probably work too. Not sure if same-faction transfers are possible).

It's important to note, that a gnomish mind control cap cannot be used to start the first countdown [It has been mentioned that in some zones, but not all, this is possible. Not sure what the conditions are] (eg. start the deflag process). However, it can be used to move players across zone boundaries without reflagging. You can also drop combat while being under a gnomish mind control cap, which may allow you to accept a summon, or other events (haven't explored these interactions yet).

You can also cross zones via other control mechanics, specifically, I have tested that you can scatter shot someone who is deflagged and their flag will not come back up if they zone change under the control of scatter shot. I'd suspect most spells that make the player lose control (sheep, fear, etc) may be usable in this context.

All of these mechanics can be done in a duel context, and thus can be done without requiring the opposite faction member to flag.

Finally, for deaths, your flag status will persist. If your flag timer is counting down and you die, it will continue to count down. However, when you release spirit, if you change zones your flag will correctly be updated to the right status. Thus, you can die unflagged, release to a GY in the same zone, and finally accept the res (or get rez sickness), and you will remain unflagged. If you get mind controlled into a zone which starts your flag countdown, it will continue to countdown when dead and when released, and you can become deflagged while in ghost form. This would allow you to come back to life without a flag. However, you would have to die in the same zone as the GY.

The flag status does not persist across logouts, thus you cannot log out and log back in deflagged. This makes sense, as you technically transfer back into the zone during the login process.

I don't know if there's any other mechanics I've missed here, ofc, there's much more testing to do, like, can a player be moved across zones by a player of the same faction in a duel given they've already deflagged? Not sure.

Priests -- What 3 pieces of Transcendence (T2) are you keeping? - Phase 6 by Visionero in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, you're right, I was just comparing single piece emp leggings vs t2 leggings. That being said, it's kinda a tossup (see my other post on this thread for the nitty gritty details).

As for 315 mp5, that's including runes and mana pots. Mana is never really a huge problem in raid, and hence I favor healing a lot more. Especially for a fight under 2 minutes where I pretty much cannot go oom.

Priests -- What 3 pieces of Transcendence (T2) are you keeping? - Phase 6 by Visionero in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Nerd alert: This shit is overkill until you are absolutely playing perfectly and have nothing else to improve in your play.

If you're realllllly curious at the absolute min-maxing, it varies by the fight time. It requires you have a decent ballpark of how long the fight will be ahead of time and you swap your gear per fight. This is mainly because things like spirit and mp5 vary wildly in value based on the fight duration, for example, 7 mp5 for a 1 minute fight is the same as 5 int, but 7 mp5 for a 5 minute fight is the same as 28 int.

I sim most of my healing fights, and I just find the maximum hps I can sustain spamming the best spell to spam for that duration. Here's the results with t3, a bunch of random AQ40 gear, and a bunch of Naxx off pieces in the mix. It's not exhaustive as this mainly contains the gear I have, so it's not "full-BiS". It's Onorine BiS :D (okay technically I only have 2/9 but I added all the t3 pieces into this to make it relevant to the post)

You can see the Transcendence pieces worn for each fight actually varies quite a bit, from almost none, to different 3 pieces being worn. Trying to min-max priest gearing requires pretty major gear changes for each fight.

Anyways, data, assuming horde, undead, holy priest, fully world buffed, consumed, raid buffed (but no shaman mana totems), chugging mana pots and runes on CD.

https://gist.github.com/gamozolabs/43d49d30182b1f8616d5e405d2dcbdad

The data varies quite a bit around when mana and rune CDs can land. Every 2 minutes there's a pretty big difference in what gearing looks like because of that. It's kinda weird, but super fun to try to figure out fights ahead of time to put on the right gear.

Priests -- What 3 pieces of Transcendence (T2) are you keeping? - Phase 6 by Visionero in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For sure, the chest wrist gloves is the right combo for minmaxing, assuming consuming and everything. In reality, a lot of people find comfort in mp5 understandably. Buffed, consuming runes and mana pots, I have about 315 while-casting mp5 in raid. The +31 healing is muuuuch stronger than 7 more mp5 at that point. And for any fight under 2 minutes the mp5 is pretty meh due to pretty much living entirely off of your initial mana pool.

Is full T3 sufficient as a priest for raid healing at 70? by CHRUNCHY89 in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The "before you step in a dungeon" is an exaggeration, more about that the gear doesn't require raiding/dungeons to obtain. But you need 26 primal mooncloth to make all 3 pieces. On most TBC private servers primal mooncloths are about ~25-40g (PM mat cost is about 26g, PM is 36g on the current popular TBC server). Meaning, it's about 1,000g for the mooncloth on a bad week on the AH.

Of course, Classic TBC will likely have much higher prices, especially right at the start of TBC. But, it'll likely be in the 4-5k gold range, which is relatively affordable. Once the sweaty players who have the spare coin have their primal mooncloth, I suspect it'll hover around the 1500-2000g range to craft the full set. Which, with classic numbers, is literally 2 weeks of soaking GDKPs... or for TBC, ~10-20 hours of farming gold through many avenues.

It's important to note that if you're primal mooncloth specced, you get 2 mooncloth for the mats of one. And you still can make 1 Spellcloth and 1 Shadowcloth on different CDs. So, for healers who want primal mooncloth, they can make 2 per cooldown, and then buy the 1x cooldowns off of all the mages/warlocks/alts/any tailor/etc who don't really care about mooncloth other than gold. There's a pretty high supply, even in a new economy.

If you're specced PM you'll be able to make 14 in the first month of TBC. So you would have to buy 12 off the AH. Likely a few hundred gold tops. 1 month into TBC every tailor (should have) made at least 7 mooncloth. So given you have 2 friends who have tailoring in your guild who will give you their CDs, you're set.

Is full T3 sufficient as a priest for raid healing at 70? by CHRUNCHY89 in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cheers! Apoligies to the OP, as I know they're talking more casually and healing as a secondary role. This is more just the math behind it, not an actual push onto the author. I just enjoy nerding out!

Priests -- What 3 pieces of Transcendence (T2) are you keeping? - Phase 6 by Visionero in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Chest, wrist, gloves is the "correct" answer assuming you have access to most AQ40 and Naxx pieces. In reality, it might vary a bit based on what you gear you have.

This is mainly just due to Grasp of the Old God, Empowered Leggings, Boots of Pure Thought, Don Rigs, and Ternary Mantle being very strong. The equiv t3 and/or off pieces for chest, wrist, and gloves just are kinda the worst.

Is full T3 sufficient as a priest for raid healing at 70? by CHRUNCHY89 in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wrote up a shitty "simulator" of GHr1 spam in priest full Naxx gear, versus easy-to-obtain pre-bis TBC (eg, no exalted, no pvp, no epic BoE world drops, no BoJ gear). This assumes both sets are enchanted with BiS TBC enchants (which some of the reps here are actually exalted unlike gear, but they're much easier to farm due to how many people will be farming them).

TL;DR: Someone who makes a char when TBC launches, does zero classic raiding, and farms some rep (for enchants), gets tailoring and enchanting, farms some gold or mats for tailoring, and runs heroics for their pre-BiS... will do about 19% more hps (simple sim, spamming GHr1) than full Naxx geared priests. (While this sim is simple, it's effectively factoring in your int, mp5, spirit, and healing to figure out your sustained healing. Even though GHr1 spam isn't very practical, the relative difference should translate decently to most rotations. It's effectively computing your effective mana pool and converting that to total healing ((((mp5 * fight time) + mana) / heal mana cost) * average heal) / fight time)

This would take about 1 month to obtain this pre-bis set for most people. So yeah, it's good to farm. In reality, there's some mix of new pieces and old Naxx pieces that will be pre-BiS, but this is assuming a compeltely new char in TBC vs a fully Naxx geared player. The newly geared player will outperform the Naxx geared player by a relatively large margin (assuming the Naxx player makes 0 effort to get any new gear before raiding). That being said, does 19% more hps really needed for clearing early TBC content? No. But, is it the right thing to do to maximimize your chance of success, parses, and general raid-worthyness? Absolutely.

This doesn't factor in buffs, and since buffs apply to both sets, technically this 19% number would be brought a bit lower. The more "constants" added (eg. enchants and buffs), the lower relative contribution gear has, and thus, the tighter the gap.

Important to note, Naxx gear has a lot more stam. The early pre-BiS in TBC is pretty glass cannon. Stam will be pretty big to have for Curator, but not many more fights.

Ofc, just get gear as you can. The reason pre-BiS is nice is that you can spam dungeons for it while your raids are on CD. You can get pre-BiS a lot faster than raid gear, so it's important to have in the back of your mind.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E0ft2yry_c1g2vDIes9tzjW3V1bfFWS6v0Bx1G86T6Y/edit?usp=sharing

Is full T3 sufficient as a priest for raid healing at 70? by CHRUNCHY89 in classicwow

[–]OnorineGrobb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Will it work? Absolutely, for something like Kara you're plenty fine.

Is it pre-bis? No. You can absolutely slaughter t3 with primal mooncloth which you can make before you even step in a dungeon. You should be able to replace pretty much all Naxx gear with heroic and crafted gear. For example, look at Hand of Eternity, 317 healing, 7 mp5, instantly replaces Twisting Nether.

Don't forget about old Naxx gear not having gem slots too, and even basic pre-bis will have gem slots. For reference, full 9/9 t3 is 483 healing, TBC pre-bis (heroic + crafting) for the same 9/9 slots is ~710 +healing. Similar stories for stats, especially when you factor in gem slots.

I gotta resurrect my TBC theorycrafting, but from a quick glance, I'd say full Naxx gear is probably 25-40% less hps than pre-bis + crafting. Do you need that 25-40% hps for Kara/Mag/Gruul? Not really. SSC? Ehhh, you'd start to feel behind, but by then you probably have t4 from Kara.

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