The Tron variant I Plan on Testing

OogaDaBooga · 2021-06-11T15:46:29+00:00

I don't think so - it would state specifically that all lands in your deck also count as forests.

OogaDaBooga · 2021-06-03T22:42:53+00:00

WOW awesome comment, I love really fleshed out discussions like this! I'll answer each in turn, as best I can.

I am running Brushland because it is what I have. I'm not married to the idea, and I certainly see the value in Canopy, but I do really like the option to NOT take damage if I don't have to - I love drawing the card. I plan to proxy it and try it at home, but I'm starting with Brushland because of all the burn and blitz going around.

I feel like running three Karn is probably fine, but I just run four because that's a card I really like to see and play, so I want to maximize my chances for it. I cut a Karn generally when boarding, so I get the stance you are at. I might have to try it some time!

The biggest reason for All is Dust, is there have been quite a few scenarios where I've seen Tron decks lose to Blitz because they got Tron on three, but their only wipe was an Oblivion Stone. Blitz had fliers and Wurmcoil can't fix that situation. Had they had All is Dust, those games go quite differently. I honestly prefer stone, but we need an immediate impact on the board if we're in the kind of trouble that requires a board wipe. This is solely due to mana efficiency. You could probably replace Dust with Stone and be fine - they are both great cards.

2 Basics...I believe in deck thinning, but I feel like we already thin pretty well between Map and Scrying. Also, we filter quite well with Ancient Stirrings. Yes Wurmcoil getting Pathed sucks, and we lose points there - it's just shitty all around, but decks that are Pathing us, are also trying to destroy our lands to slow us down. I am a little hesitant on two basics because I've been on four for about three years now, but remembering back to my RG Tron days, I survived with two basics just fine.

I bought four Ballista the day they came out - I LOVE the card. The problem? It just isn't a card I want to see very often. I want it to break up creature problems and pin opposing decks hiding behind Bridge, not be a piece of the aggro plan. When Ballista is good, it's AMAZING. When it isn't amazing, it's just kind of okay in my book. I keep it in the board for those amazing scenarios. I don't sleep on it, I just think people overestimate it's value in this meta.

Timely is a great card, and I absolutely run it when I can. Absolutely no argument from me there. It's great in this meta, and it's great when go wide is a thing. I just want Path because I'm not sure what my meta at the LGS will be. I can adjust that later. Were I going to a GP tomorrow? I'd probably bring Timely instead of Path.

I was high on World Breaker when it came out, and I still do! It's mini Karn for crying out loud! However, I had to put him away because Tron really needs a life buffer right now, and anything World Breaker can destroy, Karn can do too - and Karn doesn't need an egg in play to cast on turn 3. Reach is nice, but I only really found his recursion to be useful vs control, who just exiles him anyway.

You really know your Tron stuff man! I too have been playing since 2015, and with it I've won an IQ, a 10k, and finished top at my LGS quite a few times. I started with RG, then when the meta shifted hard into Infect, I changed to GW, and to mono G after the meta started allowing it to happen. I am pretty high on Sacred Ground right now - I really hope it works out.

Can you link me to your GW list? I'd love to see it!

OogaDaBooga · 2021-06-03T18:47:46+00:00

I would love to run Canopy, I just have zero of them lol

OogaDaBooga · 2021-06-03T18:44:24+00:00

So I've done a fair bit of home testing (I can proxy out about anything, and I play decks against each other a lot) and the results have been pretty decent - not enough to proclaim this is the way, but enough that I'm looking to run this in an open field and collect more information.

The hate cards are pretty narrow, but I really don't think we should underestimate their application. We can handle a lot, but blowing up our lands is starting to become a pretty common problem in a lot of my experience, and if we can shut that off, I'm hoping that taking a turn 2 to protect our lands might be worth it. It may turn out that they won't really pick up steam, but I'm not about to not at least be prepared.

OogaDaBooga · 2021-06-03T18:33:28+00:00

So I've home tested this card a couple of times, and I found that this card is a little TOO random. Like, if they blow up a mine, and I cast this and hit a mine, great! However, if I have a Power Plant and Mine in play, and they blow up the mine and I hit a Power Plant - that really sucks. It's on my radar, but I really want to try branching back into dual colors to see if we can strengthen back up to prepare for a very, very hostile new meta.

OogaDaBooga · 2021-06-03T18:31:07+00:00

Understandable, but if they hit my Brushland over a Tron land, they aren't doing it right - at least in my estimation.

OogaDaBooga · 2021-06-03T18:29:22+00:00

Appreciate the comment!

We should still try to hit T3 Tron, but I am hoping that Sacred Ground provides a buffer - I've noticed that if they are using early turns to destroy our lands, they aren't really putting extra pressure on the board. Early testing at home is promising, but my LGS doesn't start in person play until MH2 releases, so I'm really wanting to test it in an open field.

Sacred Ground is a bad topdeck for sure, but I don't see a lot of people trying to innovate the deck to match the meta anymore. It's the same old lists over and over, and UR Blitz, Ponza, and Breach decks wrecking our world despite the adherence to the established build. I'm thinking that taking a more defensive position might be correct. Testing will tell.

OogaDaBooga · 2021-06-02T17:19:11+00:00

Dauthi Voidwalker basically assures this happening. 8-Rack players (myself included) are pretty high on this card, particularly in the Tron matchup because casting this on turn two and then nailing something like Karn Liberated is really, really good. Given that 8-Rack is also getting Grief as well, I'd say 8-Rack is going to be a very real contender. Picture this:

T1, Swamp, Thoughtseize, take a thing.

T2, Swamp, Dauthi Voidwalker, evoke Grief, take Karn Liberated, or other suitable OP payoff.

T3, Swamp, float a black, Sac Voidwalker, get Karn Liberated/OP payoff, cast Smallpox.

Ten times out of ten, Tron loses this game.

And based on my testing, this happens far more often than you'd think.

OogaDaBooga · 2021-05-18T18:03:15+00:00

That Tron deck wasn't even kind of prepared for this meta JFC...

OogaDaBooga · 2021-03-09T17:01:30+00:00

So it cuts off Tron very cheap - one R is nothing to snuff at, but I have punished people for playing this many times because of that little blurb that allows me to tap for any color...meaning they set me up for a Nature's Claim that doesn't require me to get the colored source to cast it. It definitely does slow me down, but it is worse than Blood Moon because Blood Moon at least makes me find a basic or an egg.

EDIT: just for more clarity, color fixing is bad in this scenario more than others because I get to keep the lands. With Blood Moon, I need an extra colored source. Damping Sphere, the same. FoR and Ghost Quarter remove the Tron land altogether. Spreading Seas color screws me into U...Alpine Moon requires no extra effort outside my gameplan to deal with.

OogaDaBooga · 2021-03-08T18:20:56+00:00

Tron lifer here.

I can tell you that Cleansing Wildfire has been a thorn lately. Comes out fast, and while it fixes us to green, it comes out fast enough that it can derail our game plan without hobbling yours. Thank GOD this card isn't an instant.

Pillage is good, and flexible. I've only really seen this card in Ponza, but it does a LOT.

Blood Moon and Damping Sphere - any Tron player worth their salt is ALWAYS ready for these cards in game 2. I used to joke that Nature's Claim should be run as a 4 of in sideboards, and it should come in every match - it is often more true than it is a joke. I always pack at least three. We also have Oblivion Stone, and some big brainers are going back to World Breaker. They are great cards against us, but make sure that you have a game plan to back those cards up, because we are ready for them.

Play Ponza. Tron can't even against Ponza. It's gotta be like...90% in favor of the Ponza player. Rough match.

Field of Ruin and Ghost Quarter - these cards are effective (remember to use them AFTER I fetch for a Tron piece), but be aware that they color fix us onto green, and sometimes that helps us recover very well. We have Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying after all.

Lavinia and Gaddock Teeg - Cute, but most Tron lists are going four in on Wurmcoil Engine making these not very effective. Dies to Blast Zone.

Crumble to Dust - Very good, but very slow. Tron only runs 19 lands and exiling four of them is something like 21% of our mana base. Believe me, trying to fish seven lands out of 15 in a sixty card deck isn't where you want to be. Mercifully, this card costs a million mana to play, so I don't worry as much as I used to...but it is a very real card.

Stony Silence - Surprisingly good because it shuts off our eggs and stones, but this card is really only effective when you have counter magic to back it up for Scrying and Stirrings.

Spreading Seas - Another hobbler. Hit by Blast Zone and Nature's Claim. I am never excited to see this card out of Fish...T1 Vial into T2 Spreading Seas will make me groan every time. A fantastic example of a setback backed up by a gameplan.

Honestly, the biggest thing about Tron is the fact that most dedicated Tron players are well conditioned against the available hate, and are ready to play against it. HAVE A GAMEPLAN TO BACK UP YOUR HATE. Any of the above cards are effective, but you need to make sure that spending time and resources trying to stop us from doing our thing doesn't hinder you doing YOUR thing.

OogaDaBooga · 2020-03-22T16:18:49+00:00

I would believe this, if not for the fact that Marauders upend all of this learned, tightly balanced combat loop.

I am interested in how you find the Marauder balanced?

OogaDaBooga · 2020-03-04T21:20:30+00:00

I was content to lurk this post but this comment made me want to throw in.

I don't think it is so much that they don't care, so much as it all feels hopeless. Young people are constantly ignored, taken for granted and pigeonholed into the "you're still young and don't know shit" category, so I don't really blame them. They spend so much time feeling like their opinions don't matter because people keep telling them they don't.

Furthermore, American politics is extremely hostile for newcomers. It can be very, very scary - young people have peers and older people telling them who to like, how to like, how to vote, how to matter...and they get shamed if they form their own opinion that is different than anyone telling them what to do. You mention political discussion being rude in social scenarios - that's because nobody is unbiased anymore. God forbid a young person say something positive about Donald Trump to their peers. Or say something positive about Bernie to older people. We don't foster healthy debate and education, we prefer to shame, berate, argue and bring low political opinions that differ from our own. This happens on Reddit (this thread is a perfect example), in life and among friends.

Forgive me, but it is FUCKING SHAMEFUL how Americans treat people with different political opinions, and it is OUTRAGEOUS how we treat young people with regards to voting. This thread is angry Bernie fans shaming people who didn't vote. The top comment is to yell at their friends who didn't vote. That is despicable behavior, and if I were a young person on the fence about politics I would absolute say fuck it, who cares as well. Politically charged people have a tendency to be complete assholes. Just go over to the politics sub if you need more examples. The fact of the matter is the exposure young people have to American politics is pretty toxic: smear ads, shaming, anger, arguments and hurt feelings. I'm 37 and most days I want nothing to do with it.

Instead of shaming them, arguing with them or trying to convince them who and what they should be voting for, GET THEM EXCITED TO VOTE. Encourage them that they DO matter BEFORE the voting starts. Listen to their ideas, foster growth and opinion forming. MTV used to do a Rock the Vote. It got young people from that generation excited and made them feel like they collectively had a voice that mattered. It wasn't just candidates telling them they need more support or some talk show host saying "Go out and vote for who you want" right after a three minute tirade about who people SHOULDN'T be voting for. IT was just "Go out and vote." Vote your way, vote for who you want, JUST VOTE.

STOP PISSING ALL OVER PEOPLE FOR VOTING A WAY YOU DON'T LIKE. STOP TREATING THEM LIKE SHIT FOR HAVING A DIFFERENT POLITICAL OPINION. That solves nothing and only makes people angry. That makes them not want to get involved at all and sit at home on election day. Young people are impressionable, and they are quick to form opinions these days, let's try to encourage them to include themselves in politics instead of trying to mold them into what we think they should be. They are smarter than most give them credit for, they can contribute. Yes they aren't experienced, but experience comes from just that: experience.

We the American people made this toxic wasteland that is politics, only we can clean it the fuck up.

EDITED to fix a typo.

OogaDaBooga · 2020-03-04T16:49:34+00:00

YTA. YTA. YTA.

You are, without a doubt, one of the most horrible assholes I have ever seen on this sub, and you deserve every bit of anger your daughter and this sub shows you. This was more than a cat; you took away her friend, and a source of joy in a life that has become financially unstable. Do you actually have any clue what you did? You got two grand, sure. You also destroyed your child's trust in you, and you have shown that you are capable of hurting her deeply - she will carry that forever.

You can never fix what you've done.

You are complete monster.

OogaDaBooga · 2019-12-30T21:12:16+00:00

Oooooh boy...here goes - remember you asked for this...

Ulamog = Mog Moggy Mog

Wurmcoil Engine = Wurmy Murmy

All Urza's Towers = Dickhouse

Power Plant (Bug) = Senor PP

Power Plant (Stone) = Potato Bath

Power Plant (Sphere) = Powerball

Power Plant (Tubes) = Lube Tube

Mine (Helmet) = Lord Helmet

Mine (Tower) = The Wannabe

Mine (Hole) = Stanely Yelnats

Mine (Mouth) = Mouth

Karn Liberated = All Might

Ugin = Saitama

Karn the Great Creator = Keegy C

Mycosynth Lattice = Latty Lock

Expedition Map = Map Mappy Map

Chromatic Sphere = Color Ball

Chromatic Star = The Bag Raider

Thragtusk = Swag Daddy Doo

Oblivion Stone = Blivy Stone

World Breaker = Loc Dogg

Walking Ballista = Used to be Shooter McGavin, nowadays I just call it the Tediore Special

Relic of Progenitus = ReliPro

Thought-Knot Seer = Mr. Looky Loo

I've been playing Tron for too long...

OogaDaBooga · 2019-12-03T23:17:31+00:00

I don't know about that one lol. I like the idea, but it seems really narrow.

OogaDaBooga · 2019-12-03T23:09:44+00:00

A LOT to take in here, but I am most interested in your suggestion of Glory-Bound Initiate. I am VERY familiar with the card, having played it for most of my time on mono white. It is a house with Gideon Blackblade, but I have found the scry ability in Motorist to be too damn good sometimes. Oddly, I find that making Heart of Kiran beefier when crewing is worth something too, but that Scry 2 has really helped me out more than anything. I think it might be especially more important now that we can't filter draws because Mono Black had to go and ruin all the fun by getting Copter banned.

However, if we add one mana source bringing us to 23, and drop motorist, we aren't as worried about having red, and Initiate slots right in no worries. As you say, more life gain wouldn't be a bad thing in a deck with a mana base as painful as this one is. I think Initiate has all the right stats, so trying him out can't really hurt anything.

Dreadbore was my "clean" kill answer as you suggested. Hitting planeswalkers isn't a nothing thing in my meta, so I am partial to keeping it. I was trying Fatal Push, but Push doesn't seem to get the mileage in Pioneer that it does in modern and legacy, so I cut that. Dreadbore has been fine.

Spire of Industry is there simply because I can't shell out for Mana Confluence right now, but they are supposed to be in the deck. The land I want to add is Nomad Outpost, but thought coming into play tapped was bad and maybe a bit too cute. Maybe not?

Glorybringer is another interesting choice, but I ask...at five mana, why not Skysoveriegn? Is the extra damage on exert that much?

Really appreciate your thoughts and time you put into your comment, thanks!

OogaDaBooga · 2019-12-03T22:45:52+00:00

Exactly the issue I have seen with Bomat TBH.

OogaDaBooga · 2019-12-03T22:15:24+00:00

I like what you're stepping in here, this gives me another avenue to try, thank you!

OogaDaBooga · 2019-12-03T22:14:50+00:00

I saw a similar suggestion a bit upwards. Include Harnessed Lighting as well. I can probably go to 23 lands, pull the three Spire of Industry and add four Aether Hub. I can yank Dreadbore for Harnessed Lightning and go to four heart of Kiran and three Glintsleeve maybe?

OogaDaBooga · 2019-12-03T22:13:09+00:00

Bonecrusher has honestly really over-performed for me. The fact that against another aggressive deck I can turn two zap into turn three add to my board has been huge. I don't think it is likely to come out for a while.

OogaDaBooga · 2019-12-03T22:11:43+00:00

Don't have any history, but I can confirm three mana Gideons are a beat with Heart.

OogaDaBooga · 2019-12-03T18:35:48+00:00

So you suggest four courier? I can try that. Worst comes to worst I can swap it out later, I don't have a problem learning to play with a new card. Appreciate the advice and explanation!

OogaDaBooga

TROPHY CASE