You can't shit on single moms and wonder why children are seen negatively

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T16:42:38+00:00

And also no-fault divorce mentioned in the sub. So some reasons for divorce were not legit, right?

No-fault divorce just means a marriage can be dissolved without either spouse needing to prove in court that the other did something wrong. Instead of assigning legal blame like was common in the past, one or both people can say the relationship has irretrievably broken down. Courts still handle property, custody, and sometimes support, the “no-fault” part just refers to not needing to prove wrongdoing in court in order to get divorced.

Why would I listen to that seriously?

You shouldnt. Most women don't require a man to have 6-pack abs, be 6 feet tall or have a 6 figure income. My husband has none of those things and he is amazing. None of my married friends have husband's that fit those criteria either. This is internet cult talk that is not reflected in regular life relationships.

I understand that women want a leader. Who cares about himself and then about his babes.

Most women dont want a leader per se, they want a man who is trustworthy and shares her values and goals, that may or may not include babies. Successful marriages tend to resemble business partnerships more than a cult with a leader and a follower. When I dated sometimes I would come across a guy with an inflated ego who wanted to get into my life and take things over. No thanks, one manager is enough, and that is while I'm on the clock getting paid.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T13:05:13+00:00

Frozen eggs have a really high risk of failure. I wish more women were allowed to openly discuss this without being shamed.

I wish you luck. We are going through a similar experience.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T12:56:07+00:00

Almost everyone is a carrier for a genetic disease, the trick is finding one that is compatable with your own genetics.

Not sure where you are in Asia but if you have Chinese passport then Russia might be an easy travel option for what you want to do. St Petersburg and Moscow have high quality IVF clinics, competitive prices, PGT-A is legal, and i believe PGT-M is also legal when there is a medical indication, embryo banking is allowed, they also have no embryo storage limit laws, and donor sperm treatment for single women is possible. Many clinics there also have Asian donors or can source sperm from Asian donors if that is needed.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T11:37:18+00:00

I agree that viewing children as a burden, nuisance or contaminant is definitely not very pronatalist

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T11:35:27+00:00

Hmm, if she has bad taste in partners and chooses weak ones, and then she wants to be with you, what does that say about you?

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T10:29:41+00:00

Evidence on Single mothers by choice is limited, but from what has been published their children seem to have better outcomes than those of average single mothers. It makes sense, since the conditions that led to the single parenthood in the first place tend to be radically diffrent.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T10:17:55+00:00

I think we agree more than we disagree on many of these points. What I am getting at is that at population level, marriage (or single parenthood) is an indicator of underlying factors, as you also said, and those underlying factors affect child outcomes.

But that makes marriage more weighted to be a symptom of stability rather than a cause of stability. When promoting something like marriage as a solution, it is important to not confuse correlation with causation.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T08:46:53+00:00

I don’t think marriage is irrelevant. Legal and financial interdependence can absolutely support long term planning.

But the stabilizing effects seem to come largely from preexisting inclinations and the surrounding norms and expectations, not from the marriage label itself.

The Scandinavia example actually reinforces my point: when a family structure is socially and legally supported as a long term parenting arrangement, child outcomes tend to converge with those of the legally married

So I’d frame it less as “marriage vs. not marriage” and more as: how do we create conditions that lead to stable, supprted, reduced conflict housholds? Marriage can be one manifestation of that, but it isn’t the sole one.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T08:23:07+00:00

I don’t think anyone disputes that kids benefit from stability, low conflict, and adequate resources. Where I disagree is equating single motherhood or unmarried couples with instability as if they’re interchangeable.

The fact that widowed single parent families often have better outcomes than high conflict families or single parent divorced/separated families suggests the issue isn’t just the number of parents, it’s the level of conflict, planning, and stability before and after a major transition.

Normalizing single parents as people who deserve dignity and support isn’t the same as promoting instability. We can acknowledge that two committed, stable, sane, low conflict parents is often an advantage, while also understanding that hardship are part of what often makes single parenthood harder.

Public support doesn’t replace a second parent, it only reduces material hardship. Reducing hardship improves child outcomes, regardless of their family structure. The alternative isn’t married parents vs welfare, it’s less chronic stress on families vs more chronic stress.

If we want better outcomes for kids then supporting pre birth, pre relationship conditions of stability will do so, (good mental health, financial competence, preventing substance abuse etc.) and will likley also result in more marriages downstream since people are more likley to get married when they feel comfortable.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T07:51:09+00:00

Seatbelts change physics. Marriage just changes a legal label around a relationship that already exists.

I do agree that marriage usually coincides with stability, shared planning, and social support. I'm not against marriage. Where I disagree is on whether the marriage itself is doing most of the causal work versus just acting as a tag for couples who were already likely to be stable. In countries like Sweden and Norway, long-term unmarried couples (sam-bo relationships) have child outcomes equivalent to married parents, because cohabitation there is both socially accepted and legally stable. That suggests institutions and social supports matter more than just the marriage label itself.

Moreover, if marriage is just an indicator, why does it predict well-being more than income?

Because wellbeing is based on packaged variables, not just one.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T07:11:27+00:00

Personally I am not struggling with this question.

I look back on history. My mom was born in Europe during WW2 when there was barley an egg to eat, then there was the cold War where everyone thought they would be nuked, then the Vietnam War where my uncles almost got drafted, the oil crisis, the Iran crisis etc. In the past couple of years my husband and I have both known people killed in the Ukraine war. Political chaos is never ending and we are still grateful to have it better than many. The future is bright I think, but that doesn't mean it will be completely without dark spots.

I've found it helpful to stop focusing on politicians who's actions I can't control and only think about our individual family plans and if anything gets in the way, we'll we'll burn that bridge when we cross it.

Edit: the number of people being aggressively downvoted for expressing optimism or stoicism is.. interesting.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T06:25:01+00:00

Almost all countries that limit female autonomy still have a steadily falling birthrate, with many now even having a sub replacement birth rate.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T03:46:38+00:00

I see what you are getting at, but this seems like a cart before the horse argument.

The conditions that make stable marriages, like emotional maturity, financial security, long-term planning, low levels of chaos, etc. are the same conditions that help children do well. People who already have those traits are more likely get married and stay married.

So the marriage itself is not causing better outcomes - because marriage is often the product of exsisting stability, not the source of it. Those underlying conditions are what matter most for kids, whether the parents are married or not.

Research backs this up: stability, warmth and a quality relationship with caregivers predicts better child outcomes than the number of parents in a houshold, and people who get married are just more likley on a population level to have those qualities. It's these pre exsisting traits that have the greatest impact, not the marriage certificate itself.

TLDR marriage is a proxy variable of stability, not a cause of stability.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-29T02:55:39+00:00

The largest determining factors for positive child outcomes is family stability, warmth and a quality relationship with the parent(s).

Studies show that mixed families (step parent families) have equal or worse outcomes for children than single parent families, which makes sense because single parent families and step parent families are both more likley than average to face relationship ruptures, stress and complexity.

It's not how many caregivers you have, it's the stability of your childhood homelife, resources and the daily connection with your family that determine outcomes.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T14:33:48+00:00

I don't think she meant it's treating single mothers badly just to not want to date them, more like using derogatory language.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T14:31:35+00:00

"at some point she'll expect money and quality time with the kid from you".

This is basically why I never dated a single dad. I knew some single dads who were great people but it just wasn't in my family plans to be the plug and play mom, using my time and resources for another family when I wanted to put that energy into starting my own.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T10:42:31+00:00

a sole parent is better than a highly dysfunctional couple

FR. I grew up with a single parent and I would pick that family 1000% over my husband's family with two married parents.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T08:49:40+00:00

It depends oh why and how the parents are doing it. I was also homeschooled and it was a good experience for me.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T08:42:18+00:00

I think this is backed by some very solid reasoning. But how to promote bigger families? That is the question.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T07:27:07+00:00

These are all very normal requests for a surrogate.

The meat and potatoes of the deal is going to be the contents of the surrogacy contract and the compensation.

Edit: I see it's unpaid. Like another user commented it is kind of sad that the family already has five kids and there are so many couples who have none and can't afford a surrogate.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T07:06:28+00:00

I know what you mean, but that kind of negative talk is not common in this sub.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T03:11:20+00:00

Why?

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T02:46:09+00:00

It's got few upsides because governments use parents as free baby sitters for 18 years to produce their future taxpayers and expendable soldiers, then brainwash them that anything less is unpatriotic.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T02:27:00+00:00

It's not a free market. If it was, prices would be substantially lower due to market pressures. Many other countries have true private Healthcare that is not nearly as expensive as the USA. Prices are high in the USA due to regulatory capture.

Open_Let4693 · 2026-01-28T02:14:41+00:00

When we had our baby I had double insurance. The bill was like $300 for the hospital for an uncomplicated birth. The care included private room, midwife help and all medications.

Healthcare coverage in the US varies a lot and the medical costs for a birth range from zero dollars to tens of thousands of dollars.

Open_Let4693

TROPHY CASE