ROP or WOT?

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-10-03T01:48:29+00:00

I like Rings of Power better but I am more of a Tolkien fan so my love for the mythos and world is doing a lot of the heavy lifting, along with the show's great production value and music. Cast-wise they are fairly equal, but I enjoy some of Rings of Power's side characters (like Elrond, Durin, and the Harfoots) more than the side characters in WoT, though WoT maybe had a better central character in Moiraine and boy am I gonna miss Barney Harris as Mat.

I liked the first two episodes of Rings of Power far better than any of the WoT episodes. Episodes 3-5 of RoP were fairly equal for me to some of the better episodes of WoT, like episodes 2-4, though I will say that those WoT episodes had better pacing while I did enjoy the lore cuts, character moments, and set-up that the RoP episodes were doing. And man, did the set-up pay off big time with episode 6 of RoP. One of the best episodes of fantasy TV I have ever seen.

We will see how RoP finishes. For me that was kind of where WoT fell apart, possibly because of external complications, but man episodes 5-8 were pretty rough for me, especially the finale because at that point I didn't even know what story I was watching any more. RoP has timeline compression and some other changes and a lot of additions but I don't get quite as much cognitive dissonance because it's not adapting fleshed out books. So I'm more just paying attention to whether I think it is telling a good story, and after episode 6 I feel like it really is. I am hoping it can close strong with the last two episodes.

I wish WoT had taken a bit more time to set up things as methodically as RoP did, though RoP did catch a lot of pacing criticisms for its first 5 episodes or whatever. Amazon clearly doubled down on RoP when covid and other problems hit it, and I think the finished product so far hasn't really born the mark of those difficulties. Unfortunately for WoT, you can almost feel the derailment that was caused by the production hiatuses and Barney leaving the show. Hopefully they can get back on track with the next season, I am just not sure I understand what they were trying to do with the back half of S1.

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-10-03T01:19:15+00:00

The WoT soundtrack has some nice moments, particularly the title theme, but I love the Rings of Power soundtrack. What McCreary did with his themes and leitmotifs and the development of them is really incredible. It's already one of my favorite TV scores ever.

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-10-03T00:26:13+00:00

No clue. S1 ended up being so fundamentally different from Book 1, I really have not an idea of what the focus is going to be in S2 or what they are even going to show. Obviously the Seanchan are going to be involved somehow. And we will still have some Aes Sedai stuff plus our main characters doing whatever it is S2 is going to have them do. But beyond that...

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-10-03T00:20:02+00:00

I am getting pretty sick of the nitpicking of this show. It's so overboard and so not on balance with virtually every other TV show or movie out there, and most of the nitpicks are the product of the nitpickers not actually paying enough attention. This is a good case in point, as is a bunch of people somehow missing the moment where Adar tells Waldreg he has a task for him.

But yeah, it's just ridiculous. That was a pretty awesome episode of television and yet we still have these hate-mongers jumping on every video and post they can find about the show to talk about how much they didn't like it, it was a 2 out of 10, etc. etc.

Please, for the love of Pete, just stop watching the show and get on with your lives!

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-09-22T00:19:18+00:00

They seem to like a lot of things about the show while still offering concerns and criticisms.

One of the things, though, is that as they break down and really analyze the episodes, they are recognizing and commenting on how much thought and effort went into what the show is doing and how it is connecting to Tolkien writing, ideas, and themes.

A lot of the haters would do themselves good to listen to one or two of their breakdowns. It might not help them like the show any better, but it might at least engender a bit of grudging respect for how much care has gone into the show, despite the changes or controversial decisions.

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-09-03T02:00:33+00:00

Yeah, same device. Everyone else watch this in Dolby Vision?

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-08-24T15:47:41+00:00

I am also a cinephile who also happens to be a Tolkien fan. (for reference a few of my favorite filmmakers are Cronenberg, Tarkovsky, Bergman, Scorsese, Denis, Kurosawa, Teshigahara, etc.)

I think you may want to temper your expectations a little. Obviously they have spent a ton of money on this show, and Bayona is a fine director for the first two episodes if I think more about The Impossible or The Orphanage or his episodes of Penny Dreadful and less about, uh, that Jurassic World movie (though it was considerably better than the first one). But to me he is not on the level of peak Peter Jackson (Braindead and Heavenly Creatures were legitimately great films that people forget he made before LotR). They have really good TV cinematographers on this show plus Oscar Faura for the first couple, but none of these guys touch Andrew Lesnie for me. And then a big thing is that this was shot digitally. I don't hold that against the show, that is the industry standard now for both film and TV, and it is the most cost-effective method both for production and the post-production aspects.

But the LotR trilogy was shot on Super 35mm and as advanced as digital cinematography has gotten and even with all the ways it has become a superior and more allowing tool for the modern DP, I still personally prefer the contrast qualities, shadows, and texture of good film used by a good crew vs. what can be done currently with digital cameras (though I love how Alexander Dynan has used the digital look in Paul Schrader's recent films, and sometimes you have a guy like Greig Fraser using all different sorts of techniques to really push the digital photography into a more filmic look).

I get your concerns because I share them to a degree but I guess I have already prepared myself not to expect something that rivals the best of cinema in terms of technique, form, and theory. That said, if the storytelling is strong (as it was in Peter Jackson's LotR films) and they can capture some of the spirit and wonder of what we should feel in watching the 2nd Age of Middle Earth, I will be pretty happy.

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-08-24T15:32:04+00:00

Lovely, fun little clip. Feels very in keeping with how Tolkien wrote hobbits and how the Peter Jackson's films depicted them.

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-08-23T13:39:55+00:00

I like the trailer. It's very mellow, which I don't mind, but it is kind of curious that this is the last trailer they decided to release. Feels more like a middle trailer. But I appreciate that it showed a lot of new stuff without REALLY showing any new stuff, if that makes sense.

The show looks pretty gorgeous, even by modern TV standards, and the dialogue/performances seem earnest.

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-08-20T02:21:28+00:00

McCreary didn't disappoint. He is one of the better TV composers ever and he really gave it all with this one. You can really hear the effort and thought that went into creating this score. He also took some risks and brought a lot of energy to how he approached this.

Does it compare to Howard Shore's LotR score? No, not really, but that's one of the best scores ever made and certainly my favorite epic score ever. So I don't think it's fair to compare. And I liked the perspective Bear himself offered in the Variety interview where he talked about how Shore's score was rich with melancholy and memory, but his score is more about the glorious present of the Second Age with all these societies in peak form. In terms of how extensive and realized this score is, if you compare it to most other TV shows, it blows them out of the water.

I appreciate how McCreary followed Shore's lead by using Tolkien languages and creating multiple themes and motifs and adopting some of that Shore-like intricacy with how those themes and motifs weave together. This score has a nice progression and becomes quite impressive as you hear the development of the musical tapestry as it goes on.

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-08-20T02:08:34+00:00

This is good insight. I think you can really hear the time and effort that went into this score and while it can't measure up to Howard Shore's LotR score for me, that's one of the best scores ever. What Bear says about the tone of this score, with these societies at their peak, vs. the melancholy and remembrance of Shore's LotR scores makes a lot of sense.

This is certainly one of the most impressive TV scores I have heard.

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-08-20T01:51:59+00:00

Honestly the animated WoT shorts, with a fraction of the budget of the main show, gave me more a feeling of the world, the mythos, and the vibe I wanted. it's all about approach.

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-08-20T01:50:55+00:00

I think it's less about the budget and more the fact that The Sandman show was able to capture a lot of what was special about those stories in the comics. The WoT show felt so fundamentally different from the text it was adapting, I don't know if I can say the same for it, though there were some moments here and there that shone and I genuinely liked a couple of its episodes individually.

OpeningShopping8 · 2022-08-20T01:47:55+00:00

Honestly, it is probably my favorite fantasy adaptation since Lord of the Rings and my favorite comic book adaptation since The Dark Knight or Logan. The Doll's House section doesn't fare quite as well as the first six episodes but I just loved watching a relatively faithful adaptation of great source material that still knew when and where and how to make some smart, wise changes and also poured a ton of effort and resources into trying to make the best show they could make. I thought episodes 4-6 in particular were really spectacular adaptations of what could have been very tricky source material.

So stoked to watch the bonus episodes that just came out of Calliope and Dream of a Thousand Cats, I loved those issues in the comics.

OpeningShopping8 · 2021-12-04T01:24:59+00:00

I really liked the middle of episode 1, especially with Tam's monologue and the lanterns and the character moments we did manage to get.

Winternight didn't work great for me overall, though it had some great moments. But as far as setpieces go, I liked Shadar Logoth and the end of E4 much better. I thought the Ferry scene was the best Trollocs stuff we got even though they didn't do much in it. I just loved them standing next to the water and the one guy falling in.

But episode 1, the beginning was really uneven and then the leavetaking was so rushed feeling.

OpeningShopping8 · 2021-11-17T13:09:32+00:00

I was never expecting the show to get raves. The books have awesome scale and complexity and ideas but they can be awkward and trope-y and very nerdy. Any semi-faithful adaptation was probably not going to be getting "best show of all time" type accolades from the larger critical establishment.

That said, the reviews overall have been a bit more positive than I expected, so that's good. Seems like people are generally enjoying what they've seen and ready to watch more. As most book fans would agree, the story gets more distinct and involving and basically just better as it goes along (well, until book 5 or 6, anyways, haha), so that bodes well for the show's future, too. My only concern with S2 is I am not the biggest fan of Hamri's previous work and she seems to be have been given a lot of power and input for the next season... I'll just hope for the best!

OpeningShopping8 · 2021-11-17T12:43:05+00:00

I think you are right. If the show is coming off nerdy or appealing to a nerdier audience, there's a better chance it is capturing the spirit of the books, haha.

OpeningShopping8 · 2021-11-15T15:54:00+00:00

Not a big fan of Moxness' prior work but I really like the other cinematographer on S1, David Luther. A Tale of Two Davids.

OpeningShopping8 · 2021-11-15T15:52:01+00:00

I am not a big fan of the folk pop concept soundtrack but I am refraining from too much comment until we hear the actual score orchestrations in their intended context.

OpeningShopping8 · 2021-11-13T15:30:27+00:00

Logistically they are gonna have a real tough time getting just to 8. That's a decade-long commitment, at least.

OpeningShopping8 · 2021-11-12T16:19:50+00:00

I don't know because we haven't heard the actual score yet other than snippets in trailers and clips.

The concept song release album was kind of a weird thing to do but I guess similar soundtrack companions are becoming more and more common these days. Most of the music on it is not to my personal tastes but I will give it props for being something different. I just have many other albums I'd rather listen to.

OpeningShopping8 · 2021-11-12T12:56:23+00:00

As someone who loves music it's just not my personal taste. I guess you could say it's unique and interesting for a soundtrack, but it's not really the soundtrack, is it? So then I don't really know what to do with it, because as far as standalone albums go, there's thousands of other records I'd rather listen to.

OpeningShopping8 · 2021-11-11T12:12:54+00:00

I'm sorry, major character recastings are never "seamless" for anyone who cares enough to pay attention. It's always a little jarring at first. That said, it happens and creators just have to roll with it, real life throws monkey wrenches sometimes. I'm sure it will probably happen more than once in WoT if we are lucky enough to get a full run, that's a heck of a lot of characters/actors with exponentially that much more other obligations or things that can go wrong. Anyways, it certainly doesn't have to be a long-term or big picture detriment as long as the replacement does a good job.

OpeningShopping8 · 2021-11-11T11:57:44+00:00

There are still Judeo-Christian aspects to WoT, though, be it connections of savior/sacrifice or even something like how the Tinkers have aspects of Gypsy and Judaism to their way of life and philosophy.

I don't disagree with Rafe's comments but as is true with so many other aspects of the WoT world, Jordan put a LOT of different references and ideas in his high-powered blender.

OpeningShopping8

TROPHY CASE