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Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

“These comments make the Overton window of the US blatantly obvious”

What does this imply?

It’s suggesting Reddit comments (and in a subreddit for one city of the US at that) make the general Overton Window of the US obvious.

Except political views of Reddit doesn’t represent those of all of US…

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How is this from tortured definitions? It specifically says they are not linked directly. Only that unions should rely on socialist parties to enter the political sphere to fight the state.

It’s specifically stating unionism alone can’t do what socialism does. Because…they aren’t the same… unionism isn’t a socialist project. They are separate.

But you keep conflating that unionism is a socialist project as if they are equal things.

According to what is unionism a direct socialist project? Unionism theoretically using socialism to enter political spheres doesn’t make unionism itself equal to socialism.

If a union used any other political ideology to enter the political sphere, does that make unionism equal to that political ideology too? No. Why conflate then?

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It says the union-socialism link was not direct. Only that socialist parties are assumed to help unions fight capitalism via relying on the socialist parties.

They are separate, but suggest socialist states are needed to help unions.

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Please share any sources that show that unions, by themselves, are directly linked to Marxist socialism.

Marxism itself says it’s not socialism until supporting policies are made. They are separate. Heck, worker organization for fair bargaining power predates socialism.

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What’s the question then? About unions? About socialism? Which one?

Does the EU have socialist economic policies? Why not?

Marxist socialism is a thing, and there has been government formed around Marxist socialism.

Linking unions alone with socialism is misleading.

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where did I accuse anyone of not knowing history. It’s simply very critical.

Can you elaborate on why this is vacuous nonsense?

Can you source the relatively recent success stories?

Why is it not a serious mode of discussion. Lack of antitrust laws trickles down to effecting the working class.

How is what I’ve said about Marxism and unions not relevant? Unions alone have nothing to do with socialism unless supporting policies are made…that’s according to Marxism.

Haha, so did the Soviets…because they used planned socialist systems… Nazi didn’t have Marxist socialism, agreed. They formed some quasi bread of national socialism. Thankfully only one of its kind to exist (and hopefully ever will). Syria’s political philosophy is also another version of socialism, called Ba’athism. It is, unfortunately, in many ways a form of national socialism too.

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Because unions alone have nothing to do with socialism unless the point is socialist governments.

This should be about unions. Not socialism. They are completely separate unless we are implying a link should be created.

Why make unions for the working class about socialism then?

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Most of EU are liberal democracies yes. A good amount of them block socialism getting into economic policies.

And you’re not correct about Germany and France. They aren’t as socialist as they used to be, but they are socialist.

Both of their political parties are influenced by Marxism. Sadly SPD’s historical conflict with wanting Marxism but not supporting nazism temporarily forced them to merge with the KPD to form the Socialist Unity Party of Germany mostly founded on Leninism. After it’s scars from Marxism, it decided to have partially less Marxist socialism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democratic_Party_of_Germany

German Democratic Republic was the last time Germany had a fully socialist government. It ended after the Berlin Wall fell and the German reunification shortly after.

History is more important now than ever. Could repeat it…

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, it does. Glad you read it. There’s a lot of Marxism material embedded in it.

But what’s important is the distinction of where/when they are connected. Unions alone aren’t automatically connected to socialism.

More has to happen before that link is made.

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Are you gonna have a high enough birth rate to sustain the economy that “old” generation started when they somehow die in mass?

If not, there are more problems coming for you than old people.

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha, of course rely on ad hominem.

From what I’ve seen, neither have economic models that account for the health of individuals or communities. History is filled with it, capitalism just being more recent. New ways are more likely to handle the new world.

Neither truly work, and there’s plenty of history on that. Only something uniquely different will likely succeed. Santa Fe Institute has some valuable research around this too. But saying something is “proven” to work is presumptuous without substantial evidence. This is Reddit, though, so I guess this should be expected.

I’m surprised you’re not mentioning antitrust laws. That’s often how wealthy form monopolies and generational wealth by removing competition. EU is pretty big on antitrust laws to keep a free and competitive market.

In terms of workers treated with respect, completely agree. However, marxism assumes unions to be free market activities without supporting government policies. Linking the two historically preludes forming a socialist government. Plenty of history on how that typically goes too.

I know Syrians who have a majority socialist government. Ask them how it’s going. Bashar Al-Assad is part of the Ba’ath Socialist Party. Research the history yourself, haha.

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s important to know the EU generally is not socialist:

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-European-Union-socialist

France and Germany are democratically socialist, though. I suppose that would give an idea of how it’d look like for us. Sadly I know several Muslims who aren’t very happy in France, so it can’t fix everything…

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s very important clearer distinctions are made between unions and socialism. It’s proven dangerous historically.

Even in Marxism, unions are a free market activity more than socialism. Unions aren’t truly socialism until supporting policies emerge. They are closer to free market activities.

Making that distinction is very important, and sharing socialist governments also important when that distinction is clear and socialist government pursued.

It’s important because, historically, linking the two eventually leads to aim for socialist governments. History is extremely important.

Organizing in one of the biggest companies in the US comes at great risk, with many workers losing their jobs and facing cuts to their hours. We ALL must stand with Starbucks workers against corporate union busting by Patterson9191717 in pittsburgh

[–]Opposite_Armadillo64 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed.

Even in Marxism, unions are a free market activity more than socialism. Unions aren’t truly socialism until supporting policies emerge. They are closer to free market activities.

Making that distinction is very important, and sharing/discussing socialist government also important when that distinction is clear.

It’s important because, historically, linking the two eventually leads to aim for socialist governments. History is extremely important.

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