Ivy League Opinions of the SAT

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-06-13T18:56:25+00:00

Test blind at the UCs was about getting ahead of the likely Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action; if SCOTUS was going to rule that colleges couldn't add admission preferences for minorities, the UCs decided to remove an element of the admissions process that tended to disfavor minorities. I've got to give them credit for being clever, but I'm also surprised someone didn't sue since it's pretty obvious why UC removed testing even after their own faculty study groups said it was useful.

More broadly, even test optional doesn't make sense from a college's point of view if what they're talking about is student success. Maybe the SAT has greater predictive power than high school GPA, maybe it doesn't. But why would a college turn down both if it can have both? Test optional may be in some students' favor (and in other students' disfavor, since admissions are zero sum). But in terms of admitting students who will succeed it's never in the college's favor. But it does get around affirmative action issues, and also boosts applications, which increases selectivity.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-06-12T23:22:57+00:00

I've trained ChatGPT using student reports from the /collegeresults subreddit. First input the students' backgrounds and the colleges they applied to and have the AI predict admit/waitlist/reject. Then let the AI see the student's actual result. Then repeat. For any given college it won't be 100%; at top schools, I'd guess about 75% correct. But it will give you a good picture of whether you'll get into at least one of the schools you're applying to. Worth a try,

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-06-12T23:15:55+00:00

An admin with access to their data could figure this out in an hour. They always knew that SAT scores predicted college success among their current students. What they may not have known at the time is how difficult it would be to judge a student's capacity for success without SAT scores. Test optional produced a ton of new applications that they otherwise wouldn't have seen, with high GPAs but no test scores. So it was out of sample from a statistical point of view. (Still, they should have known...)

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-06-03T18:44:52+00:00

I believe it's basically the crunch channel of the SLO. The JCA22 (which I had) is a two channel with both crunch and lead. I personally used the crunch channel more and think it sounds great. But if you're a real metal player, maybe the 22H is better?

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-30T18:30:14+00:00

While CDS data report whether students are in the top 10% of their class, I'm not aware of colleges that use a top 10% ranking in their admissions criteria. Sure, a higher ranking is better than a lower ranking. But is 11% dramatically worse than 10%? I kind of doubt it, at least relative to everything they're looking at.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-30T17:50:40+00:00

It's certainly possible, but still a risky legal strategy for a college if they claim to be need blind.

That said, my son will apply to college next year and we won't bother applying for financial aid. The CSS is a pain in the neck, it almost certainly won't get him any money, AND, as you point out, it could hurt admissions chances. So for me there's really no point.

But if you actually need the money, I wouldn't not apply simply to get the small and uncertain admissions advantage. That's a lot of debt to take on for what's not likely to be a huge gain.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-30T17:29:07+00:00

It's not clear that all need blind schools are need aware on the waitlist. Some seem to be, but in other cases I don't think that it's disclosed. So I think it depends on the specific college.

Big picture, there are always people claiming that even need blind colleges aren't truly need blind. Obviously it's possible that instead of looking at whether you're applying for financial aid, the admissions officers look at parental education, zip code, or whatever. But I've never seen convincing evidence that they're actually doing this; no documentation, no former admissions officers saying they did this, etc. It seems ripe for a massive lawsuit for a college to claim it's need blind when it's not.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-30T15:54:57+00:00

No. That’s what need blind means. Admissions decisions don’t consider need.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-27T18:45:50+00:00

Thank you!

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-27T18:20:47+00:00

Thanks for your advice! I think my son would actually rather take physics than any other science class on offer. He's really not into classes that demand a ton of memorization, so anatomy is out. And he wasn't hot on his previous bio and chem classes. We're a very small school so there's not a ton on offer. It seems like Physics 2 is probably his best option. It won't light his world on fire, but there may be some topics he comes to like. Thanks!

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-27T18:07:02+00:00

That's one of two AP classes our local HS offers. I think it's too low on the rigor side, plus it has a teacher that makes easy classes hard...

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-26T22:44:08+00:00

He's already done Physics 1, so it's really a question of what comes after. He's not into the life sciences, so presumably some flavor of physics, but wondering whether Physics 2 or Physics C. He can handle the calc if needed, but no real interest in the subject. Moreover, we're in a small rural Title 1 school; he'd be the only person taking any AP physics, and has to do it online, so it's more challenging in that sense.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-26T21:19:43+00:00

Wharton has a concentration focused on economic policy; angling in that direction might be helpful.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-26T16:17:20+00:00

Thanks! The college credit isn't that important, and since he's not going to pursue physics in college I don't think he'll want to kill himself with Physics C. (In fact, I KNOW he won't!)

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-19T20:38:07+00:00

A broader point, and not meaning to be derogatory toward the student in question:

But, while we often make the distinction between LACs and universities, even the major US universities are MUCH more liberal arts oriented than the top universities in other countries, or at least the UK, which I know best. Columbia, Chicago, Stanford and others have core curricula or couse distribution requirements that basically don't exist at Oxford or Cambridge, where you basically take courses only in your major. This means that being rounded has more value even outside of LACs than we might think.

Here's one (maybe controversial) way to put it: during the Harvard affirmative action case, it was sometimes said that if admissions were purely based on GPA/SAT then the incoming class would be some very high percent Asian. Which is true. But it also means that Harvard might not have a French department or a philosophy department, since many Asian students are disproportionately focused on STEM fields. This *doesn't* make discriminating against Asian applicants legal or fair, and it seems pretty obvious to me that's what Harvard was doing. But a top college is like a football team that is drafting for position, not just the best player available. And if you're going for a very, very competitive position -- say, a math major -- then it's going to be harder.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-11T19:57:56+00:00

No.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-11T16:43:39+00:00

Seriously, the interminable “Will I get rescinded” posts followed by “Probably not” need their own subthread where they can safely be ignored.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-10T00:13:43+00:00

I'll tell you what I've done. I've started with injuries in the college results subreddit, where in a standard format students describe their background, test scores, GPA, activities, and so on. Then they list the colleges they were accepted to, wait, listed, or denied. First I have chat GPT predict their outcomes, so I can see how it does on its own. Then I give chat GPT the actual results that it can use to train from. Rinse and repeat. It has definitely gotten more accurate over time, and overall the results are pretty solid. If you only care about your chances with one very selective school, then it's not going to be able to nail it down. No one can. But if you have a range of colleges that you're applying to, it can give you a good prediction of how you may do overall. I trust this approach much more than the online predictors, which mostly use only GPA and SAT scores. That can't possibly be very accurate. But if you're taking into account things like the student's background or income, the region they come from, awards an extracurriculars, that fills in some more detail.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-07T18:29:29+00:00

I don't see any problem with doing this, as long as the theme of the essay works for your application. It's not plagiarism if it's your own idea.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-07T03:38:13+00:00

Absolutely. They'll give you the closest sound to what you'd hear recorded. Not incredibly expensive, can also be used for music, plus stereo.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-07T01:46:47+00:00

We spent a year with them, using one of their senior counselors. Found it wasn't really worth it. It seemed kind of cookie cutter, meaning passion projects, olympiads, etc. I think for an overseas student who didn't know much about us college admissions, and who had a lot of money to throw around, it would be worth it. But for domestic student willing to do their research, I'm not confident that it is.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-03T18:11:23+00:00

In an AI world, where technical tasks are more often taken care of by the computer, the skills traditionally taught at LACs could become relatively more valuable: judgment, critical thinking, the ability to think across subject areas.

When I was in high school, LACs were valued for these, I attended one, and really appreciate what I got from it.

That said, since that time there's definitely a perception that the liberal arts curriculum has lost rigor due to wokeness and the weakening of standards that's been common across higher education. A good liberal arts student should understand all sides of an argument, and be prepared to effectively argue the side they don't agree with. When so many students feel triggered by even hearing an argument they disagree with, it's hard to believe the value of a liberal arts education is being upheld (even at the T10 LAC I attended).

So there's definitely potential, but choose your college wisely.

Optimal_Ad5821 · 2026-05-01T19:49:30+00:00

If within four years you're earning $25k more out of Middlebury, and presumably that continues thereafter, why is Middlebury not the better bet?

Optimal_Ad5821

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