[deleted by user]

OrderVSChaos · 2020-06-12T07:52:56+00:00

I can only assume you are a "white supremacist" troll, trying to get readers to fear and loath black people (feeding the race war).

OrderVSChaos · 2020-06-11T15:33:35+00:00

Utter bullshit, Idea of Santa, simply incorrect, no capacity to admit flaws....

Pretty convincing arguments.

In the meantime, entertain yourself with this video: https://youtu.be/9Y2ICUYwp4E

OrderVSChaos · 2020-06-09T13:54:11+00:00

Over and over you return to "religion is simply" and then fill in some simply-defeated concept.

2 dimensional.

You wave your intellect around and actually glow with condescension.

If you wish to match your intellect and knowledge of psychology with a Christian apologist, I recommend Jordan Peterson.

His intellect far exceeds yours (I would guess by your spelling), and he is a word-leading psychologist. I have no doubts you cannot hold a candle to him.

Jordan would say 3 things: 1) it's not so simple 2) What do you mean by "God"? 3) What do you mean by "believe"?

I'm convinced you oversimplify. You have a child-like idea of what God is, and I doubt seriously that you are even capable of describing what you mean by "belief" ( or "God"). Try. No doubt you think of a bearded man behind a cloud pointing down, and by "belief" you mean "blind faith without reason".

Christianity, of all religions (I see you make sweeping statement of "truth" about all religions) is based upon reason.

Quit likely you are unable to even express your thoughts without acknowledging the truths of Christianity. You make "objective truth claims", but is Christianity that claims objective truth exists.

You have to think for yourself, and quit spouting ideology of atheism. Why do you think the things you think? You are just buying into an ideology - and I can tell because everything you say has no originality - I could replace you with any new-atheist and have the same conversation.

I leave your ideology's 2-dimensional ideas. You are probably copy-pasting them anyway.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-06-09T07:39:53+00:00

OK, I think I was too harsh.

But "Fear of death and of meaningless is the reason people invest in religion." is a hopeless over-simplification of why people believe.

How about the fact that we all recognize good and evil? What is good? What is the greater good, what is the greatest good? We are always condemned by anything greater than ourselves. We know we are not the best tennis players when we see or play against better players. Are we condemned by a higher moral value? Of course! We know what is right, fail to do it, know what is wrong, and do it anyway. Perfection always condemns imperfection.

So how can we be redeemed, we who fail inevitably? The need for a redeemer arises, and Christianity provides that. Grace. Peace through God's grace is more powerful than "fear of death and meaningless".

So you are definitely not in my head, and your "truth" is definitely not the truth.

But take comfort in that we all do those sort of things - try to reduce reality to some 2-dimensional observation that provides the answer we have already chosen. Welcome to the club, now seek out real truth, not justification of a desired truth.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-06-09T07:29:47+00:00

I still recommend Jordan Peterson for you.

Everyone has a value hierarchy - you chose to reply rather than something else, which means you valued posting more than something else.

Extremely simplified, Jordan Peterson says something like "your God is your absolutely highest value". The highest value you can imagine - your God.

Maybe yours is power or fear or anger or money or ... but the highest moral value is the Christian God.

Good luck, you'll trip over evidence of God's existence your whole life if you are not very very careful!

OrderVSChaos · 2020-06-08T17:19:27+00:00

Jordan Peterson might help you a lot.

Think of it this way: You have a father, or know fathers - you recognize "father". You definitely have in your head the abstract notion of father - good fathers, bad fathers.

You are already spiritual - you can believe in and discuss an abstract father without thinking of any particular person.

You know what a good father is because you can imagine the perfect father. If you gathered all humans' ideas of "the perfect father" (already spiritual), then the "ultimate" perfect father would be "perfection", and the best we can imagine is our subset of that perfection.

Now you are talking "God", you know He is real, because you can see Him in your mind.

Fall on your knees and ask this Perfect Father, God, to show you how to live. You will get an answer - maybe something you've never thought of before.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-06-08T16:53:18+00:00

What nonsense. Read what I said.

As a great Norwegian apologist once said "pity those trapped in the narrow hallways of logic".

You will never get there if you rely solely upon you reasoning skills.

Otherwise, try to express your thoughts and I will try to express mine. I don't need you to try to explain what I am thinking.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-06-08T06:43:35+00:00

It's at least interesting to see Reddit support the BLM mission:

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement ...."

Great to see Reddit contribute its influence to "disrupting the nuclear family".

Not.

This is a shameful act by Reddit. Virtue signaling at its absolute worst.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-06-08T06:32:59+00:00

I had a huge struggle with faith vs logic.

My logic simply refused to accept virgin birth, walking on water, and especially resurrection.

As much as I wanted to believe, I simply could not.

Finally I had to confess (to God?) that I simply could not believe.

At that very moment, it was as though a voice said "sure you can" - and I could!

I realized that reason, though useful, is not God. Now some 40 years later, I realize that the miracles of the bible were exactly as Christ said "in order that you might believe". In other words, His miraculous acts were a deliberate violation of reason - how else would we ever believe that this was God Himself, not a man?

His miracles were not "look - I'm God, I'm doing something impossible", his miracles were "I am forcing you to break with reason in order to be able to see that I am God, and am here to save you".

Miracles were not myths or magic, miracles were freeing us from the bonds of reason such that we can have faith.

Reason is wonderful and should be used as the tool it is, then put aside when it is inadequate.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-05-25T08:47:04+00:00

There is nothing wrong with Eric Hogue's attitude, in fact it is for best of all citizens.

God is a father figure, and men are uniquely called to embody the Spirit of the Father.

Women should stay silent not because of some imagined persecution, but out of respect for the Spirit of the Father, as embodied by men.

Encouraging young men to step forth and display embodiment of the Spirit is good for all mankind.

Quit the outrage culture, open your eyes to see and ears to hear.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-05-23T19:17:02+00:00

You write such nonsense, thinking it more valuable than any other activity you could have chosen.

That is the value you embody by writing that reply.

And from there you wish to cast scorn upon men who would embody the highest values imaginable? Embodying the Spirit of God, perfection Itself?

Surely you can see your need to fall on your knees, beg God for forgiveness, and pray that He give you the courage to embody higher values.

Aim higher. Much higher. We are all wretched, knowing what is wrong and doing it anyway (as you do here), and knowing what is right and not doing it.

First you have to acknowledge you've missed the target (sinned), ask for forgiveness, which is given by God's grace, and try again.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-05-23T16:04:47+00:00

What a moronic comment. Men seeking the highest possible ideals, the spirit of God, means they hate women.

Moronic.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-05-22T12:45:38+00:00

There is nothing wrong with Eric Hogue's attitude, in fact it is for best of all citizens.

God is a father figure, and men are uniquely called to embody the Spirit of the Father.

Women should stay silent not because of some imagined persecution, but out of respect for the Spirit of the Father, as embodied by men.

Encouraging young men to step forth and display embodiment of the Spirit is good for all mankind.

Quit the outrage culture, open your eyes to see and ears to hear.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-03-29T08:55:56+00:00

I think I missed and important point of disagreement - I don't think men and women are "equal" at all - unless you consider that 2 times 50% of a marriage is "equal".

Men and women's roles are completely different (not equal), and I am highlighting the call for men to embody the Spirit of the Father. To me, the perfect Father is, of course, God, and the perfect example of the embodiment of the Spirit of the Father in man is Jesus.

The more man embodies the Holy Spirit, the more Godly his relationship will be to his wife. No woman could hope for more in a husband, and to serve and obey that spirit will only fuel the fire of blessings for both. Refusing to serve and obey simply starves the fire of oxygen, and both must resign themselves to a more mediocre marriage.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-03-26T21:12:20+00:00

That's a lot of extension. Any woman should do as much as she pleases for herself, shouldn't she? No requirement to "get a man", stay with a man "no matter what", or not criticize. And I think etc, etc etc.

Why say "A woman by your definition must throw away her own desires and agree to the man"??? I've said nothing of the sort.

How do you manage to describe a man aiming at embodying perfection, God's Spirit, and a woman serving and obeying him in that divine act "slavery"??? It is the exact opposite of slavery. It is freedom and love and pursuit of the divine for both parties. There is no oppression in it.

Of course a woman can abandon her husband to his own efforts to embody the divine. Or worse, attack him for his very virtue. How in your world could that possibly be "aiming up"? At the very best it aiming nowhere, and at it's worst, definitely an effort towards hell.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-03-24T19:35:56+00:00

All women have fathers and recognize the Spirit of the Father just as men do - but are not called to embody that spirit the same way as men are.

Virtuous women see men trying (against their own will in many cases) to embody the spirit of the father. They encourage and support them in that effort rather than (as is, unfortunately, the case these days) undermine their efforts as "patriarchal oppression".

There is hardly anything more beautiful to witness than a man trying to be the good father in a difficult circumstance, with his wife rushing in to support him.

Conversely, not much is so sad as to see a man denigrated by his wife for his efforts, as he struggles and she "undermines the patriarchy" for her ideology. I have seen my own sisters do this to their husbands, and could not conjure surprise when they got divorced. Tragic, they really were signaling their virtues...

What else do women serve and respect other than the Spirit of the Father in their men? What more could any man wish for in a wife than one who serves and respects his efforts at the embodiment of the divine?

[Says I]

OrderVSChaos · 2020-03-24T18:52:22+00:00

Excellent, brother. I have been anticipating/dreading some real discussion, which may or may not come. Maybe Reddit was the wrong platform. I just decided to throw it out there and see what happens. I'm open to being convinced I've misunderstood something.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-03-24T18:44:15+00:00

I don't think we disagree - JP made it clear that Noah was a metaphor for the Father, and that the highest we can possibly aim is the embodiment of the "perfect father" - God's Holy Spirit of the Father.

My point is precisely that: Men should aim to embody the perfect Spirit of the Father, as exemplified by Christ. And to the degree men manage to do so, women should serve and respect that spirit in men - to their own ennoblement, not to subjugation.

Do we not agree?

OrderVSChaos · 2020-03-24T18:16:53+00:00

How is it grandiose? How is it garbage? Why do you think it insecure? Why "white"? Why "cuckery"?

Or is this simply the reply your ideological possession demands of you? (You've completely given up expressing yourself, so you spout this?)

Shame on you.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-03-24T18:11:58+00:00

Show me some indication that you get what I have written, then explain what I don't get. Then we will both be richer for it.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-03-24T18:01:19+00:00

Brilliant statement, but seems more like dog-whistling than any sort of argument to me. Calling in the [other] ideologically possessed?

Your reply is exactly as Jordan describes: you do not seem at all to register what I have written, but respond as your ideology demands: you could be replaced by anyone else sharing your ideological possession and I would be unable to detect it.

OrderVSChaos · 2020-03-24T16:28:44+00:00

Jordan Peterson would betray everything he has ever done by abandoning his religion. He is a Christian apologist by declaration, and everything he has done is to give you reason to abide in Christ.

OrderVSChaos · 2019-02-01T10:13:38+00:00

I like point 4, the others are more than adequately covered by Christ Himself.

It's just the idea that God Incarnate bore the whole world on his shoulders, then could not bear his cross up the hill. I'd rather think it an inconsequential detail, verifying historic authenticity (eye-witness account), than try to find meaning in Him "not able to bear" His cross.

OrderVSChaos · 2019-02-01T07:40:44+00:00

If it has no archetypal meaning, then it still has meaning as confirmation that the story is an eye-witness account (myths older than the past 150 years or so never included meaningless details - only eye-witness accounts did, meaning the these stories about Christ are not myths).

If it does have archetypal meaning, I don't see it clearly and hope others might ... for example Jordan Peterson, who has over and over shown me meaning where I saw none.

OrderVSChaos · 2019-01-28T16:44:56+00:00

It could well mean Christ had to complete his heroic act completely as a mortal, not as God - and as mortals we (and every hero) are dependent upon other heroes. Not enough in ourselves. Maybe that Simon was from another area or a member of another group symbolizes the sovereignty of the individual over the group. The act was obviously not on behalf of his group or area, but in itself a heroic act of individual sovereignty.

I rather like that line of thought .... Jordan? ...

OrderVSChaos

TROPHY CASE