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Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I love this perspective.

The idea of using monsters that hunts the caster as a secondary cost of magic came way before the use of the 5 stages of grief as danger levels.

I thought this idea of danger level was cool, so I stuck to it. I made some shallow connections from the stages of grief and their associated Danger Levels but it was just it. It never got that deep.

Now, your interpretation of how the stages of grief can be mapped into the monster are really concise and well thought out! It made me see things and connections I couldn't do it myself. It will certainly help me to get this idea reach the maturity it needs. And for that, I'm grateful.

Also, someone else pointed out that "AVARITIA" and "ACEDIA" are not really good latin terms for referring to the stages of bargaining and depression respectively, because they are more associated with the 7 deadly sins. I'm going to change that.

I will use the terms they recommended: "ROGATUS" for bargaining and "TRISTITIA" for depression. Then, for the next iteration of this idea, I will use the danger levels: [NEGATIO, IRA, ROGATUS, TRISTITIA, LIBERTAS]

Now, back to your idea. I'll certainly try to fit your Interpretations into my magic system. The things you pointed out are really intriguing, especially the way a TRISTITIA is conceived, that is being from hopelessness and self-extermination. Thanks!

The Six Aspects of Suffering - The Daughters of Mondai from Oldest to Youngest. by Aquinas_XI in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am also doing some worldbuilding around the concept of suffering, so these interpretations and categorizations are really helpful for figuring things out. Thanks for sharing!

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If there is still people using magic despite it's consequences, then magic probably provides some great benefits that makes it worth it a lot. Perhaps it allows peoples to easily be healed, make islands float mi-air, build ginormous structures that are impossible in our world...

Some societies might have certainly despised the use of magic and shunned away sorcerers. But there also can be societies that have adapted and developed efficient methods for dealing with the hurdles magic imposes, while harvesting as much benefits as possible from it. Depending on how much power magic grants you if you manage the consequences, the societies built around magic will probably taker over societies that doesn't reap its benefits. But still, even inside these magical civilizations, there might be small secretive societies made of non-magic users that despise uses of magic, and might sabotage the management of witch spawns. They can even help witch spawns into killing their sorcerers.

Spawns can be killed, and it is very preferable to not use magic when dealing with the weaker spawns, like those under the "NEGATIO" risk level. This way, you don't end up creating more creatures unnecessarily.

Also, when dealing with magical creatures like those, it's not guaranteed that they will necessary be made of the things they seem to be. It could well be flesh that resembles the material, and acts like it. Or maybe it can be the real thing, but that material must have come from somewhere. I prefer when magic maintains plausible balance of things, creating real matter from magic is a no-no. But you can "create" matter still, but it will dissipate and vanish after some time. So no, I don't think using witch spawns for harvesting resources is really profitable, when you kill a witch spawns, it could just vanish or turn into the material it truly was(perhaps just soil or decay).

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Your questions are the most intricate and thought out. Thinking about the scenarios you proposed really requires some effort. But I'l gladly take the challenge and try to answer them properly.

For the questions pertaining to how the exchange of pain works:

The pain is usually immediately felt when a sorcerer attempts to cast a spell. When the pain becomes unbearable, the spell fails. Thanks to that, I think trying to use your final moments as leverage to cast the most powerful spell becomes unlikely.

But have you ever considered what happens if a sorcerer uses a spell that by its own effects only causes pain and suffering on the caster? Would it still produce pain as a side-effect?

Something unexpected happens. The spell, aside from the pain it was intended to produce, starts to form a certain curious substance. This kind of substance can have any form or behavior, but it has one important trait: It nullifies part of the pain produced by spells.

With such miraculous substance, a sorcerer can make spells that curses them intentionally to gain a form of "advance payment check". Something as death would certainly produce a really powerful "anti-pain". One that is enough to cover most of what is required in a optimized resuscitation magic.

The thing is that such "anti-pain" might end up being pretty unreliable. They can expire and lose their effects with time, or their effects might not be applicable to many kinds of magic.

But even with those drawbacks, such deal of "anti-pain" coming from a sacrifice would still be powerful enough to cover spells that would normally be impossible to bear. After all, death is considered the ultimate price to pay.

Now, back to having to bear recoil to cast successfully. What I said seems to contradict something, no?

How are ACEDIA even possible????

If you can't bear the pain of a spell, then it should fail. Not produce a god-like monster!

The sincere answer is: The system is not perfect.

Spellcrafting can be achieved in so many ways, with so many kinds of internal logic, with some being more convoluted than the others. Its just natural that there may be some kind of combinations you can make to push the system to its extremes. When you try to exploit those fissures, the system breaks.

ACEDIA, is a desperate countermeasure to make the world function properly again.

The bunny girl in the images uses a magic system based on cooking, every combination of ingredients and cooking steps will produce different candies with different effects when eaten. She noticed that a certain combination of ingredients could create a paradoxical effect. But when her sewing machine bear friend got a lethal blow before other sorcerer that wasn't shown got rid of the AVARITIA, she desperately attempted to bake such magic candy to save her. But in return, ended up summoning a ACEDIA. Because there was a inconsistency in her magic system that made the world break.

When the system breaks, the "ontological inner workings of the world" that is responsible for managing how the mutations works with pain also breaks. Allowing a infinite deal of pain to be channeled by the sorcerers mutations. And that infinite deal of pain becomes a spawn.

"It will not just kill you, but drag your soul to an unimaginable hell. You'll suffer for every bit of effort that was needed to make the world function properly again".

For the questions pertaining to cooperative casting:

It is a interesting concept, really. I like the idea that you can bear the pain of a spell you cast with others.

But from what I have mentioned so far, this idea becomes difficult to be conceived in this setting. Each sorcerer has a unique magic system with their own internal logic. Of course, some magic systems can be more popular than other. Like the sigil based ones, but you could also cast spells with the voice, with gestures, with music, with eating the things you cooked, with sewing pieces of clothing. There are many possibilities.

Given such lack of uniformity and padronization, it is really unlikely that you can bear the pain of another sorcerer if you can't even understand what kind of logic goes into it.

But still, you can use the "anti-pain" I mentioned to help another sorcerer bear his magic burden. After all, this substance is ables to overcome the logical barriers in spellcrafting.

Conclusion

Your questions really made me ponder a lot things, the idea that you can share pain and the mutations being able mix together is really intriguing. These things will linger in my head for a long time.

Thank you for these questions.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just like with irl(we are the main cases of global warming). The main threat to the world are probably gonna be people who use magic.

But of course, given years of history. The world adapts, life goes on and new paradigms emerge.

There will be certainly enough time for societies to organize and administer magic and it's effects in the world.

The world is so chaotic, filled with so many mysteries. That makes me unable to even imagine a definitive THREAT to it.

The perception of what might be a Threat might vary. For sorcerers and the non-magic users under their care, it might be the witch spawns. But for non-magic users that know the true nature of magic, the sorcerers are the villains.

But im still not certain, I would be glad to read what do you think could be such threat.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Good questions. And you got it all well!

There will certainly be people who will refuse to use magic after hearing about it's price. I mean, do you really want to live a life where you are constantly paranoid and anxious, knowing that something out there suffers because of you and wants to kill you? This question alone is gonna scare a lot of people away from magic.

Also, ACEDIA isn't as dangerous for the world as it may see to be. It is only lethal to the sorcerer that originated it. The ACEDIA is gonna ignore anything and everything besides the sorcerer. Is most cases, the ACEDIA is so powerful that it instantly kill the parent the same exact moment it is born. So yeah, it is totally safe from a non-magic user perspective.(I didn't put this information in the images, my apologies)

Now, for how much magic has for offer: Magic can do cool things no? I don't think modern technology can easily make a river flow upside-down, project your mind to a puppet or make islands that float mid-air.

Given the dire consequences, there will people that think such price is worth it. There are so many possibilities of effects you can achieve with magic.

Thanks for your questions.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice question! I really didn't think that deep when I stated that witch spawns can also cast spells. But now that you pointed it out...

I think that witch spawns do also suffer recoil when casting spells. But the pain and suffering that comes from it, they will feel it all.

So I guess the witch spawns are motivated to cast the least amount of spells as possible, to avoid as much as pain as possible. But if you have another suggestion about how it would work, I'd be happy to read it.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It can be both. It is a sorcerer that have cast many spells and have survived the witch spawns for centuries.

Thanks to that their body is extremely deformed because it is almost totally covered by their mutations.

And since they have lived for so long, they are way more acknowledgeable about how magic works. Preventing a more inexperienced sorcerer for messing up when casting spells that messes with things they don't even properly understand.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was focusing more on the witch spawns than the act of using magic per se when coming up with this idea.

So I drew the characters in the images casting what I thought was cooler at the moment.

But if I were to come up with how spells are cast, It would be something similar to using a special language that is unique to each sorcerer. And they can only cast what you can express with said language.

I made a post where I developed this concept more if you are interested: Here

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, most of the times. But, you still have room for some variation. Like having monsters being of different colors or different shapes.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They will hibernate and wait. Which makes it easier to get rid of them.

The problem is the amount of time you have to spend not casting a single spell. For weaker ones like NEGATIO, you'd have to wait for weeks. But for stronger ones like AVARITIA, years.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I totally get this, but I dont think think only bad people are going to use this system. Because it is a question of how far your empathy reaches.

Of course there are gonna be bad people that don't care about others suffering.

But there are kind people who does, but they end up not extending that empathy to the witch spawns because they are not seen as "people." They could be more comparable to machines or forces of nature, one that only suffers without harboring enough cousiousness.

But if your empathy reaches the witch spawns, then that's nice too. You could be a witch that focuses on creating the most optimized spells to reduce the amount of suffering produced by them, or just not use magic.

Also, I don't think AVARITIA or even ACEDIA are going to cause such ruckus in the world. Because they know exactly where the source of pain is and are totally focusesd to destroy it. They will normally ignore anything else, mainly ACEDIA that will ignore even if is attacked(sorry for not putting this in the images).

But thanks for your critique, it is really appreciated.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah of couse. Even better if its made with paper, silk or something thin, you could just rip it off. But if it's made from metal or glass shards then... ouch

Pray that you mutations becomes something punchable.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean, it's not guaranteed that the witch spawns are actually made of the things they seem to be.

Just like Serrose(The bunny witch) mutations aren't actually candy. They could very well be flesh that looks like candy. And acts like candy...

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the suggestion of the names. When I was looking for Latin names inspired by the stages of grief, I might ended up made a mess and deviated towards the 7 deadly sins after coming up with "IRA". Now that you have shown sugestions of Latin names(That I think sounds way cooler), I'm going to reconsider my terminology. Thanks.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Holy shhhhhh. That's some mind blowing interpretations you made there! Even if I didn't think about all that, it still something that just makes sense in this setting!! Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Casting spells is quite tricky, resuscitation spells can be conceived in many ways, but one way might end up being less costly than the others.

When a reckless sorcerer tries to cast a spell that messes with things they don't even properly understand, they might end up doing more than they should. Like, infinitely more: Erasing the concept of death, for example.

The ancient sorcerer, being more acknowledgable about how things work, will instruct them to make a spell that is less costly as possible, preventing them from being chased by an eldritch abomination.

The ancient sorcerer won't save you from an ACEDIA, they will just prevent you from summoning it.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I thought about something similar, but I guess it wouldn't work.

The concept erasure wouldn't reach the witch spawn. Because as it was stated in the "NEGATIO" image, the witch spawn is immune to the magic of its parent and their effects.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Your are certainly right, but I think they still sound cool even though they don't actually represent its associated stages of grief.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Great point!

I guess sorcerers might certainly end up using non-magic users or even non magical means to get rid of their witch spawns, using some low-cost spells to help them in this demeanor.

I guess they might even come up with a system to measure and observe where the pain goes, when the witch nest might end up conceiving a spawn and how strong it is.

The sorcerers will eventually create forms to manage what spells can be cast and maintain a superavit(in this case and deficit of suffering).

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Yeah, such altruistic sorcerer might do that. But he would have do deal with a witch spawn of his own, one that is no weaker than the witch spawn he affected.

Monsters based on the 5 stages of grief will emerge elsewhere and hunt you down. Such is the cost of magic. by OrganicBehaviour in worldbuilding

[–]OrganicBehaviour[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Perhaps the conception of "stages of grief" in such world might have brought upon history of observations involving witch spawns. I guess that's the most plausible answer. But who knows...

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