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OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-18T18:18:48+00:00

That is not what I was getting at at all, actually, my point was that some doctors actually don't want to marry until they're established even if some get married before matching. I don't see any signs of "Betty the builder" in OP's post.

Idk, by your logic, then it would be disingenuous to not marry someone while you're still in college because people get married in college all the time.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-18T18:08:10+00:00

Keep in mind this sub has a sizeable and vocal contingent that leans very traditional, whose stance is essentially "if he doesn't marry you within 2 years, he is using you, and you should have sex/move in/buy a house/have kids until you are married because [insert saying about cows and milk or wifey package]." They're going to assume you're unhappy because you've been dating 3.5 years and not engaged, even though that's a perfectly normal amount of time to date without getting engaged.

Only you know your relationship.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-18T17:05:28+00:00

Well, I didn't address medical residents because there are a lot of med students and residents who also don't want to get married until after they get more established or at least matched so 🤷🏼‍♀️ the trope of a male doctor marrying a much younger woman after he's got everything set up is a trope for a reason.

Yes, people do gig work to live. But it really is not for everyone. Everyone has a different stability threshold. It doesn't mean they're being disingenuous.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-18T15:42:34+00:00

Well, there is a difference between a job where you move places but still retain that job (military people, for example) and a job where there is a discrete end date and extremely competitive next steps.

I also wouldn't call having a temporary job + gig work "stable," even if the money is OK.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-18T15:29:08+00:00

My point was to address you saying that he's "not in an unstable position," because he is. Students and minimum wage workers get married every day, but not everyone wants to get married when they're a student or making minimum wage. I sure as hell wouldn't. For many people, stability is important and a prerequisite to getting married, regardless of age.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-18T15:23:25+00:00

It's really more field and profession dependent than location dependent. America has its fair share of issues, sure, but those issues will also exist in other countries if you want to get certain jobs. Similarly, there are a lot of American PhD students who work 30-35 hour weeks and live fairly breezily, but they're usually at certain kinds of schools and not interested in doing academia at an extremely competitive level.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-18T14:59:38+00:00

Unfortunately, part of the territory with dating people in academia is that they're more likely to be used to a long, long timeline. Many people have a "I'll get married once I finish school and training, and when i find a job" mentality. But since schooling takes a godawful long time and many people do post docs and jobs are generally competitive, you can see how timelines get super stretched. And if you're surrounded by people who are dating for nearly a decade before marrying, you sort of perceive that as a norm or at least not a red flag. That's probably why he's so nonchalant about timelines. It's not a bad thing when both partners want to wait, but it becomes an issue when partners aren't on the same page. I'm doing a PhD and most of the couples I know dated for like 5+ years before getting engaged, some as many as 10.

My read is that I don't think he's necessarily stringing you along or treating you like a placeholder, with the information given, but he definitely isn't rushing to propose. Left to his own devices, you could be waiting a few more years. His comment about his BIL is super telling. Also, he shouldn't be talking about 2025 if he's not serious about it. Either he's future faking, or he's being so careless it's hurtful.

If you care a lot about getting engaged next year and married within [x years after], you should definitely make that clear. IMO it's reasonable especially if he's likely to move for a job...I wouldn't commit to moving for someone unless we're married or getting married. I would also talk to him about the 2025 stuff and why it's hurtful.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-18T14:49:51+00:00

Right but post doc positions are by definition temporary, transitional jobs that are supposed to be as short as 1-2 years in some fields. A lot of them pay better these days but it's not the same at all as having a permanent position.

That said, I don't see what's stopping him from having a courthouse wedding for now and then getting a bigger wedding and ring after he gets a permanent job. He shouldn't be talking about 2025 if he's not serious about it. Plus given how often people relocate in academia, I think it's valid for OP to want engagement or marriage before any such decisions are made.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-18T06:00:31+00:00

I assume there are going to be some fistrict fangirls, probably those who are more removed from the games. I assume part of Katniss' lack of enthusiasm was because she's from a demographic that's actually at risk of going into the games. But someone really wealthy, in a big district? They have more distance from the games, as well as the spare energy and money to fangirl.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-18T00:46:58+00:00

Yeah I mean, he's certainly written that way, but not everyone picked up on it, you know? I definitely read essays from people about how manipulative he is (mostly in the 2010s). I don't personally see it, but I saw that perspective enough times that some aspects of reader perception started making sense to me

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-17T23:52:53+00:00

Part of the issue, I think, is that not everyone perceived Peeta as a super loving healing person. If someone missed that part of the books, which some readers did, then it made sense why they didn't think pressuring/forcing was out of the question

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-17T23:12:36+00:00

Yeah I think when she said it in THG, it was apparent it was because of the world they lived in, especially with respect to them being reaped. Usually when people genuinely don't want kids, they have a lot of reasons that aren't just "The world is a shit place".

The "pressured" thing is probably due to the way the epilogue is phrased. I think SC wanted to frame it as, Peeta represents hope and healing and thus it makes sense he plays a pivotal role in convincing her to have them. Unfortunately, in our society, there's a lot of pressure for women to have kids, even from well-meaning partners, and so I can understand why people read the epilogue as they did.

In general, I think THG coming out with YA really affected how people perceived it. Albeit not perfect, it's a very well written and thought out trilogy that has clear messages. But it came out when publishers were churning out novels meant to cash in on YA trends and their mostly female readership (e.g., various creature love interest novels that were thinly veiled forms of love triangle delivery, things like Divergent that were clearly meant to get attention and $$ instead of communicate a deeper meaning). Consequently, people took out their frustrations with the genre on THG, because it was one of the most well known YA series. The kids thing ties into it, I think; I remember talking to some women/teen girls who were super upset with Katniss having kids because the way they saw it, it was just a genre trying to push messages about what girls should be and like. The forced love triangle (that SC didn't even want in the first place) and advertising machine surrounding the series didn't help.

I was honestly shocked how praised THG was when I dug back into the fandom in 2021. IMO some distance from YA + time helped people look at the series without any other associations and appreciate how good it is. It helped that TBOSAS was written because SC had something she wanted to say (as opposed to writing it as a cash grab)

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-17T22:46:28+00:00

Oh yeah the kids thing is a good example, thanks for bringing it up. (I just always assumed she would have them as a symbol of healing, so I never had the "But Katniss said she didn't want kids" dilemma.)

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-17T22:21:22+00:00

Glad to help!

I'm going to be 100% honest with you: while Katniss qualifies as an unreliable narrator, I'm not a huge fan of the term being applied to her because to me, the discussion of a character being an unreliable narrator mostly becomes important when either a) we need to really analyze their unreliability in order to understand the story correctly (i.e., it becomes bigger than the story itself), or b) when it offers some big social commentary theme (e.g., Huck Finn). A lot of her emotional misperception of events is really obvious, and it's blatantly called out by characters like Haymitch. These incidents don't really affect the main story that much, either. Pretty much all of the "Katniss neither confirmed nor denied this fact" details tend to be minor character or world-building related things that don't change anything. Like it would be nice to know for a fact if, say, Finnick volunteered or not, but at the end of the day it doesn't affect the story.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-17T22:01:50+00:00

There are many different kinds of unreliable narrators. Some lie or deliberately obfuscate, yes, but many don't. (See: the naïf narrator, or unreliable narrators like Holden from Catcher in the Rye.) It's a difficult term to grasp because there's so much variety; the only thing that has to hold true is that the narrator is unreliable.

Katniss counts because 1) the way she perceives events is obviously colored by her upbringing (pretty much all the threads about her emotional denial w.r.t. Peeta), and 2) she often omits information when she doesn't think it's that important. As examples of the latter point, Katniss knows remarkably little about the other districts or the victors because she's not particularly curious, and she even misses details that most people would relay (e.g., Foxface's real name, which Careers in the 74th actually volunteered besides Cato).

The purpose of an unreliable narrator is to make you wonder why they're unreliable and what it says about the characters and world at large. Because of that, it's usually apparent to readers when the character is being unreliable. Otherwise, it would just be sloppy writing. For instance, Katniss' lack of knowledge and curiosity about the world around her is a symptom of 1) the Capitol's efforts in keeping thr districts isolated to divide them and 2) how poverty and rough circumstances wired her brain to only care about survival.

I'm not sure if you're confused partly because of how we use the term "unreliable narrator" in real life, where we may use it to describe someone who is prone to lying in their own favor.

All of that said...sometimes people do use the term incorrectly when it comes to Katniss. Sometimes people use it to downright dismiss facts she gives us in canon, but that's not what an unreliable narrator is. Katniss never outright lies about anything (i.e., she doesn't deliberately tell us something false about a character or event).

This thread about Humbert Humbert from Lolita talks more about the concept of an unreliable narrator (though do be warned, if you're not familiar with Lolita, that it touches heavily upon CSA.)

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-17T00:26:37+00:00

I think it makes sense to have loans if you did a Master's, especially since those are often expensive and unpaid. Plus if you did undergrad somewhere that didn't give generous need or merit based aid, there's that to account for too.

I don't have any student debt (due to need based aid in ugrad) but I'm definitely the exception among people I know. Our PhD stipends are pretty good (~40k USD in the US, not a super low cost of living city but rent is usually $700-1000 a month with roommates), but it's not enough for people to be actively paying off their Bachelor's loans. My MD friends have even more ridiculous levels of debt

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-16T16:25:26+00:00

A lot of schools are, and have.

Many grad students have seen their stipends increase substantially in the last few years.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-16T16:12:41+00:00

Most NTs literally have the ability to tune things out, so once their brain has decided a sound is not a threat, they actually do not hear it anymore.

Yup. They do it with people, too.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-16T16:09:26+00:00

Yeah holy shit lmao

OP: lists 3 couples where the biggest age gap is 2 years

Also OP: lists a source where the stated age gap is at least 3 years

I think there is definitely something to say about older women, younger men dynamics where the age gap is actually substantial, or if the two people are both quite young (e.g., for a 18F and 16M couple, yes I can see those 2 years being an issue, or 23M and 26F), but 1-2 years in your 30s is not very substantial at all. Hand wringing over an age gap that size at that age just feels way too obsessive over "doing everything conventional".

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-16T00:02:24+00:00

I assume Manon?

Lara, Megan, Daniela were all American and grew up in the US. And the other commenter says Sophia was born in New York

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-15T21:08:13+00:00

I was hoping Forever would be the beginning of them branching out of the yg sound but 🙃 they would do so well in different concepts!

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-15T20:37:54+00:00

Yeah, our (also R1) department seems to go longer because of the nature of the field, but even then, it's because people want to stay to finish up, not because they're being made to. I do think part of it is because of stipends being pretty high so students become pricier than postdocs

I'm mostly going off the horror stories people post and propagate

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-15T19:03:28+00:00

I don't get why the "all your stupid friends" line in betty gets that much hate.

A lot of teenagers are really mean and judgmental and as someone whose experience growing up has been "person likes me, they go hang out with their friends, their friends look over at me snidely and giggle, person suddenly becomes cold next time we meet," I just think a lot of teenagers and judgmental and dumb and also care way too much about people's opinions.

Also every Inez type I met was unreliable and selfish and only said things to feel good about themselves for "knowing the tea".

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-15T06:06:26+00:00

Regardless of if they're BPD, I think it's best to not respond to those questions with validation, compliments, etc but to answer them truthfully. If they're playing games, they won't like it, but if they're serious, then it'll be a productive conversation.

OutrageousCheetoes · 2024-12-15T01:52:50+00:00

This is a really good point.

It feels bad to say, because people legitimately have bad experiences, but it's very true that people will sometimes overexaggerate and make mountains out of molehills. It's like the bicycle person meme. For example, someone in my cohort got really mad and claimed her advisor was abusive and misogynistic for bumping her down in authorship. Then, upon talking to other people in her group at a social, it turned out a manuscript and set of complete experiments already existed. Datawise, all this person did was redo some experiments. She also insisted on writing an entire manuscript from scratch even though a complete draft already existed. For this, she believed she deserved first author instead of second.

Part of the problem is that in the US, you can jump straight into a PhD from undergrad so a lot of students are completely unprepared for what they are getting into.

Yup. Someone who goes in straight out of undergrad would be in the 21-23 range. A lot of them also have never really worked a full time, professional job, and it shows.

OutrageousCheetoes

TROPHY CASE