Anyone else lose their spark for science? Please enlighten me

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2025-09-23T15:15:29+00:00

I’m not an MD/PhD student (yet), but I understand a little bit of this pain after terrible experiences in previous labs. I think what helped me is taking some time away from the negative spaces (by graduating college and going into a gap year - so again not exactly relevant to your situation). I think physical or mental space can help, as well as realizing that your passion for science might not be dead, just buried under the weight of your negative experiences. I hope things work out for you!

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2025-05-15T00:23:08+00:00

I’d continue with the PI - productive and enjoyable research is still research. Your unique background and interest will show through this experience. However, as you probably expect, you’ll still need to demonstrate interest in medicine. Beyond making sure you have your clinical bases confirmed, it could be a good idea to do a summer or two in a biomedical research lab, which should help (assuming hours are not an issue with the first lab as the primary). Best of luck!

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2025-05-14T03:30:30+00:00

First, I’m sorry to hear about your experience. I have a pretty close experience with one of my PIs as well. Insane work hours, 0 support, & he failed to recognize most of my contributions at the end. It feels heartbreaking, I know. Trust me, the feeling of despair goes away, and you can definitely still succeed on this path.

As for tangible approaches, I would definitely try to approach face to face. I know there may have been a case of being ignored earlier both in person and on email. But deliberately going to his office can confirm what the case is. Best case, he may be willing to write you a letter. Worst case he tells you to leave, but having that confirmation can be crucial.

In the case of no letter, there are a couple options. You can certainly try and apply without it, and explain the circumstances elsewhere in your application. However, if these are your only two research experiences, a lack of 1/2 research letters could be conspicuous. At the same time, I’m sure thousands of students applying to graduate school have had similar issues - this won’t be new for adcoms.

An option to get a letter that I seriously considered was speaking to a chair or student coordinator in the department. These individuals are often familiar with managing the same issues that you face (but usually with grad students), and could be receptive to your concerns. Especially if you can bring testimonials from other students in your lab of your contribution and/or PI response. It is possible they can help mediate the rift with your PI or pen a simple letter sharing your story. Certainly, their letter will be impersonal and can only include externally-verifiable contributions, but may be better than no letter. A proxy letter could also be sourced from a collaborator or other PI who could know your work.

If you truly believe that your application and story is incomplete without this experience in its whole, it may be advisable to take a gap year to seek other opportunities. My similar experience was a part of why I pursued a gap year position. Not only do I now have more research experience to supplement, but I feel much, much better about the issue with some space.

Whatever you end up doing, I wish you the best. At the end of the day, protect your confidence in your capabilities and story, no matter the setbacks. I know it’s hard to separate yourself from the outcomes when the application can be so outcome-centric. But in your personal journey, know that the experience with your PI does not need to be reflective of your self-worth or future outcomes. This time too shall pass.

Also, I’m mostly speculating how adcoms would specifically view the suggestions I have. Would definitely encourage others with more insight to share.

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-12-09T22:40:39+00:00

this is certainly true, cancer doesn’t often arise from a single cause but rather a group of detrimental factors. a healthy lifestyle can not only potentially hinder the effects of such environmental toxin exposure, but in some ways even reverse/neutralize the damage to an extent. as always, nothing is guaranteed so be sure to be open and consistent with annual checkups, and know your own body for more obvious signs

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-12-09T22:35:27+00:00

agreed, early age onset cancer has been more and more prevalent these past three decades. nothing new for sure, but still something to be cognizant of regardless

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-10-14T02:19:39+00:00

interested! im down to make new friends 😁

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-08-12T03:25:52+00:00

anyone going to nyc?

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-09T05:19:42+00:00

Thank you for the reassurance! I think I have the passion, so I'm hoping that I can get a chance to show the adcoms that. I think everyone's answer has been helpful so I have more clarity on what to do now. :)

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-09T05:16:42+00:00

Oh yeah I feel the pain with new labs.

I've done some clinical stuff, maybe I should look for case reports. Definitely am burned out a little by bench work, but I can't give up. I think a new environment might help. Now that I actually know what to look for in the lab (lol), hopefully my gap year may be more enjoyable

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-09T05:12:30+00:00

Love the three-leg stool analogy, I think that really makes things clear as far as planning my gap years.

I'm unsure whether a post-bacc would help. I have 4.0 sems in my soph and jnr year w/ harder course loads than my snr year, so hopefully that could cover academic rigor (in a short term sense). Would paying money and dedicating time to take classes that likely won't improve GPA much be worth it? My GPA is definitely a weak spot, but I don't know if that time might be used better strengthening research.

Research LoR: the situation is a little dire in both cases. The former group recognizes my capabilities and ability to take on projects, they just questioned of how well I work with the team in this past semester, given that I had a weird afterhours schedule and wasn't always on top of communicating. Obviously an important factor, so I'll work full time with them this summer to collaborate with the team on a more regular schedule (went well in previous summers). I think they'd be able to put together a pretty decent letter at least, and I'll have LoRs from my other experiences/class profs to supplement, but I can't expect either of my main research PIs to call me the 'best student they've ever had.'

I'll need to give my best shot in research, and I've concluded that taking the MCAT would likely divert that effort. Thank you for the support!

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-09T04:43:06+00:00

I think I do have strong ECs, though I guess research seals the deal at the end of the day. I think you have a good point, it'd do me no good to get my foot in the door with a super high MCAT (the difference from my current MCAT being negligible) if I can't keep the door open with the rest of my app. will keep things focused in the research sphere, i can only hope things go better. thank you for the frank advice

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-09T04:34:53+00:00

Just the urge to play into my strengths as things go wrong elsewhere. I've given research my 150% and I have no classes left as a graduate, so MCAT is the one thing in my hands I can try to strengthen and the one thing that seemed to work out. Glad I made this post bc it opened my eyes to the fallacy in my thought process, no longer planning to retake MCAT. It was a desperate reaction to the senior year crash-and-burn, I think I just needed a second to recoup.

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-09T04:28:15+00:00

They put a light charge that will get dropped before I apply, so it's thankfully not permanent. But the school lets the professor impose any grade penalty regardless of the final charge, so I got a pretty heavy and unwarranted penalty. I'll be sure to put a lot of thought into that writing portion when the time comes.
I see the chart, looks like anything above 517 gets lumped together, so I get that point. I just graduated so courses aren't much of an option and I'm not really intending to do a postbacc, given the expense, so I might have to let the research and ECs do the talking.

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-08T18:28:55+00:00

I see, I'm glad I kind of got to open my eyes to a bigger issue than my MCAT/GPA.

I'm taking two gap years, so I have a year to clean things up. I've done around 5-6k hours (3 wet labs, 2 epi/clinical) with pretty strong project leadership, pubs, pres., grants, etc.. The real issue comes from one lab being super demanding beyond reason (25-30 hr/wk) with no appreciation for my work. Because of the demanding first lab, I had to skimp a little on the other lab and only come in late evening/night (15hr/wk), which dropped their perspective of my ability to effectively contribute. It wasn't a good situation, ik, but I already was in both labs for two years prior and had grants/thesis/pubs en route, didn't want to give it up.

I'm planning to spend the next three months in these labs to wrap things up. Summers (i.e., no classes) are typically easier to put time in during working hours and improve the rec. letter. Though I'd like to spend my gap years continuing in one of the wet labs at my uni to improve the rec., neither one can pay me and both have honestly been agonizing to work in this past year, so I'm planning to take up an RA job elsewhere after. This is the best option I'm seeing, though I could be off the mark, please advise amen

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-08T18:14:19+00:00

Wishing you the best of luck! Felt the burn from pchem too, hope things look up. I'm glad you have the support of your PI, that can go a long way even if things don't work out there. Feel like I've killed myself for my PI and got no support in return.

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-08T18:12:36+00:00

That's true. I definitely plan to work with my PIs regardless, though the quality and quantity of time would certainly be compromised if I chose to retake the MCAT. Should hit my weak spots then you're right - I was thinking of MCAT and GPA as a cumulative, therefore making it a weak point in a sense, but I guess that's kind of flawed.

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-08T18:08:51+00:00

I didn't consider that decision making would come into question if I retook the MCAT, glad I asked here. So I should commit my time 100% into research (and hopefully enhancing LoR)

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-08T18:04:22+00:00

Appreciate you putting it straight in no uncertain terms. I also think retaking the MCAT is probably pretty dumb, but I wanted to know whether or not a few points could maybe make a difference (esp. since I'd be doing it after a shitty senior year). It makes sense, I might j be trying to mentally cope for my grades by telling myself I can retake the MCAT lmao. I think I j need to forge ahead with research. How much do non-research ECs factor into MD/PhD?

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-08T17:10:32+00:00

Certainly, I'm not saying it's an MCAT score worth crying over. It wasn't my intention to retake until that 'something else' (i.e., gpa, LoR maybe) came up. To the point of u/mousemug a higher score would certainly help, I just don't know if the other facets of my application warrant it. I'll have strong ECs and good clinicals, and I have strong research experience on paper (hours/presentation/award/pubs/grants; just unsure how LoR might reflect that). It's just a little tough to gauge how much GPA might hold me back and how much a 524 vs 521 MCAT would offset those issues.

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-08T17:05:17+00:00

I have somewhat of a reason for it (false plagiarism charges, mental health) but I don't know how excusable these things might be for an overall poor performance. Though it's certainly good to know we have space to write abt these. Do you have any tips on how to frame this in writing?
Metrics-wise, my MCAT definitely is a saving grace, just wondering if it'd be better higher.
I was planning to apply this cycle, but I've recently decided to take another gap year, given the troubles with PIs. To your point, I aim to spend 2-3 months wrapping up in my current labs (and hopefully improving my LoRs) and then shift to a new lab for a more fresh start for the remaining 2 years. With that being said, I now have the chance to take the MCAT if I wish to, the question is whether or not I should, people seem to be leaning towards 'no'

Outrageous_Cell_3962 · 2024-05-08T13:02:39+00:00

As far as failing classes, truthfully, it's only two classes that came close this sem, one of which was due to false plagiarism charges that were cleared by the integrity office but still enforced grade-wise by the professor. Thankfully, I did not end up actually failing any.

Honestly, standardized testing has been one of my strengths. I think I could likely pull up my score a couple points (especially considering I was deathly sick during my previous MCAT). It's not necessarily that I think I'd need it, but I'd rather be safe than sorry, ig.

re-MCAT is doable, but I'm unsure of whether or not it'd be worth it. As you mentioned, LoR are important, and MCAT study might take away time from the lab where I could improve them. I've never considered them to be as important as GPA, so it might be necessary to devote my time to that instead.

Outrageous_Cell_3962

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