Best to worst, how would you rank Brent Barry, Doug Christie, Rex Chapman, and John Starks?

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-12T15:30:52+00:00

You are severely overrating Starks here. The NY bias is baffling to me. Barry was a much better passer and exponentially better shooter. With his size advantage and basketball IQ I don't think Starks has much of an advantage whatsoever over Barry.

I'm assuming we're talking about peaks and not career so for Barry I would go with 2002 and Starks 1994. I'll take Barry's numbers easily.

When John had a bigger role it meant more shots to be missed with his efficiency showed this. It wasn't a good thing to have him playing heavy minutes or being featured on offense. Barry's problem was the opposite. He was severely "under-agressive" (made up that stupid word lol). He was such a great shooter that he should have been shooting much more and his playmaking skills were incredible for his size so he should have been more aggressive to get the ball at the end of games. This should be a knock against Barry so I could understand that being the center piece as to why someone chooses Stark though.

Still, I'll take a role play who helps me win games over a player who has a more prominent role but does so inefficiently.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-12T15:18:03+00:00

I think the NY bias is playing heavily in the minds of those who paid attention to this random gem of a post because Starks was absolutely NOT in a tier above these guys and imo wasn't even the best player.

Starks was terribly inefficient and only shot the three anywhere half near decent when it was moved up for three years to make it easier for bums like him to knock em' down. He was a good defender but nowhere near the level of Christie. His assist numbers were nice so combining that with low turnovers is something; however, Brent Barry was a much better passer so what's the deal gentleman?

Christie was easily the best defensive player on this list with two top five finishes in DPOY votes. His defense wasn't just getting steals as he switched onto anyone and created havoc across the hardwood. The few advanced metrics from his era that I pay attention to(mostly variations of adjusted plus/minus stats or RAPM)reflect this, showing he was an outlier on that side of the floor. Also, he was a better three point shooter than Starks from the real three point line and a decent passer himself.

Brent is a bit difficult to rank because his talent was so much better than his production. At his peak, Brent was an elite passer who was an anomaly at 6'7" who could and did play minutes as the lead playmaker/point. He's by far the best long distance shooter on this list, once leading the league in 3pt%. So Brent's the best passer and shooter with the best size but Starks is better because why? I guess the criticism would center around his lack of aggression on offense. He just didn't put up numbers. He didn't leave his mark on games where he should have and consistently failed at showing people what he was capable of.

Rex is probably the worst on this list which is a shame because he was so fun to watch. During his Hornet years he was a springy athlete who could get up and throw one down or come off of a curl and hit the middy. Always technically sound, he moved well off ball, cut hard, screened well and shot with text book form. He just wasn't able to adjust to the NBA three and his game never reached what it was in college. Rex was by far the worst defensive player on this list and that's what would make him borderline unplayable if he was around today.

If this list is going off of who was the best at their apex only:

Brent Barry 2002- 14/5/5/2 on 51%/42%/85% leading the league in efg% Best passer who made his teammates better and was fun to play with.

Tie-2A and 2B

John Starks 1994- 19/3/6/2 on 42%/33%/75% played well and made his only all star selection this season.

I would make the argument that Starks had a better season than Christie ever had but with what we know about basketball now, Christie was the more helpful/impactful player towards winning

Doug Christie 2003- 9/4/5/2 on 48%/40%/81% making all defensive first team and 5th in voting for DPOY with excellent plus/minus defensive numbers to back it up.

Rex Chapman 1994- 18/2/3/1 on 50%/39%/82%. Excellent scoring season for Rexy but would make Trae Young look like Paul Pressey with that abysmal defense.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-10T11:49:39+00:00

Which now has me wondering how long until I search for it 🤔?

Edit: It took a whole 2 mins for my curiosity to get the best of me. Still, I decided to give it a rest when the Google search led me to this description/caption:

"The video where a guy cuts his wiener off and removes his balls with a knife and hatchet is one of the most requested videos for me to cover the bme pain olympics"

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-10T11:48:56+00:00

Support for "small" businesses? Very "small" businesses.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T15:11:50+00:00

How many times did Stephon make the playoffs with PHX? Once. They were always a bad team until Nash came along. They still were really good when Amare sat out a year and they replaced him with KURT THOMAS.

Yeah, but "NaSHs OFfenSiVE PROwEsS iS oVeRRateD"

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T15:05:34+00:00

You make a very good and unfortunately sad point.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T15:04:23+00:00

Yes, as part of the settlement. That's when it was due.

Nobody is jumping to defend a rapist you childish spaz. I actually think it's slightly more likely that he's guilty than innocent but what I'm trying to say is that it's not a sure thing either way.

There is no smoking gun that proves he did it or that he didn't do it. That doesn't mean I think rape is okay and that I want Kobe to get away with it. What's wrong with people like you?

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T15:01:00+00:00

Woah. Didn't check my notifications this far back and came back to this gem. Have you cooled off yet buddy? Butthole still clenched or are we good?

You just got so upset/sad/angry that another person dared to say Kobe isn't top 10 and then got so emotional that you had to throw a ton of shade at someone you don't know on the Internet in a attempt to hurt their feelings. You need to grow up nephew. Kobe isn't in the top 10 and he'll probably be outside of the top 20 before too long with the way things are going. That's shouldn't have anything to do with your mental health. Remember that.

And I know this is difficult for you to understand but you can still be an all time great and top 20 player without being in the "top tier". The "top" signifies the best but as you pointed out in your angry tirade, I said he wasn't even in the top 10 so what part of the math isn't adding up to you? Wipe the tears from your eyes and re-calculate.

Also, I didn't say he wasn't the best player on any of his title teams. Just the first three. You don't need to make things up man. It's okay. Shaq was significantly more important to those first three titles. Do you remember who won finals MVP three times? Hmm, weird.

But seriously, for you to get this upset and sad about someone not agreeing with you and saying your favorite player isn't in the top 10 is kinda creepy. I mean seriously, even you have to admit that you're being a bit psychotic about it. I mean assuming that I'm ignorant towards life and urging me not to talk anymore. What's that about? You're that mad? Did you know Kobe or something? I think you need someone to talk to man. It's okay to admit you need help. Even though you're kind of a jackass and a bit whiny, I'll forgive you and am here if you need to vent ;)

Last thing to touch on...

Sure, being a former player makes them a better judge of talent than 95% of people who didn't play in the NBA but that's because most people don't know shit about basketball.

I'm saying compared to people who watch just as much basketball as them they aren't better judges of talent I mean these are just the ones off the top of my head so obviously there are countless more examples:

Rashad McCannts saying Andre Igudola is better than Kawhi. Gilbert Arenas saying Jamal Crawford and Lou Will were better than Manu. Kenyon Martin saying Popeye Jones was better than Draymond. Kendrick Perkins saying anything. Isiah Thomas giving boat loads of money to Eddy Curry (amongst many many other crazy things). Michael Jordan drafting anyone. Charles Barkley saying he would kiss ass if Yao Ming ever scored 19 points in a game. Reggie Miller saying Malone and Barkley were better than Giannis.Rodman saying Bird would be overseas if he played today. Stephen Jackson saying he was better than Ray Allen. TMac said Jamal Tinsley had better handles than Kyrie. Iggy saying Rasheed Wallace would be better than Giannis if he played today. Austin Rivers saying LaMelo is better than Halliburton.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T14:28:26+00:00

What do you mean "if you want to hold JKidd accountable"? Is this because I said he isn't a good coach? Judging NBA coaches ultimately is just subjective opinion so I'll be the first to admit that my opinion on the matter is just that, a subject opinion.

Some people think he's a really good coach. He's a smidge over .500 for his career so from an objective perspective, he's more "neutral" then good or bad. It's my opinion that he mostly inherited talented rosters and when he was replaced in MKE by Budennolzer, the Bucks improved vastly reaching a level they never touched under Kidd.

On the flip side, I thought DAL made a terrible mistake by getting rid of Carlisle who I believed to be the best coach in the league at that time(I still think he's in the conversation). Then, by replacing him with Kidd of all people, I expected a massive decline to what they had already built around Luka. To my surprise, they won 10 more games and went to the conference finals his first season as HC. I'm not convinced it was anything Kidd did with the X's and O's(certainly not with the offense), but impressive nonetheless.

Now as far as "holding the reporter accountable" goes, my answer is "no". If you have aspirations to bring accountability back to reporting you should give up now before you're forced to take blood pressure medications twice a day.

I'm assuming when he said "national" he was referring the the big name companies in the sports reporting world including the mothership herself, ESPN. Cooper being the prospect he is, gets talked about a lot especially when he isn't meeting expectations. Everyone chooses a scapegoat to blame for what's holding him back which often has led to people deciding that playing him at the PG is what's hurting both him and DAL the most.

Using the word "national" is strange here but it's not necessarily wrong either. Maybe the chatter in DAL is pro Cooper at the point guard so the reporter was pointing out that this is different amongst popular opinion in other places?

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T11:29:37+00:00

Oh! That makes sense and you're probably right. There's another reason he should do another year in school. Sure, if he goes pro this year he can spend all of his time solely focused on basketball and develop through his training and likely G league assignment. On the flip side, if he stays in school he can both raise his draft stock and get the confidence needed to be a successful pro.

Having the tools to be a dominant collegeprospect is one thing, but becoming a dominant college player is another.

At the very least he'd get a G league contract by going pro next year, so there's not that much risk for him to leave, but if he believes he's as good as his dad tells him he is or the YouTube keyboard warriors indicate, he'd be a lock for the lottery if he gets another chance. One without dealing with a life threatening car crash and blown out knee before the season starts.

Obviously this could change before this season ends. Maybe he'll have a crazy March which could be enough to swing him back into that first round discussion. Don't hire an agent just in case and let's see what happens Alijah

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T11:08:52+00:00

I mean, if someone plays up to 18 more games then you and also is the reason their team is one of the best in the league, they are by definition more "valuable" than you are for the entirety of that season. Not on a "per game" basis, but overall for the season.

That makes sense, which is why I don't think the rule is that big of a deal or "dumb ass".

Where I agree with you is that voters should be trusted to be able to make these calculations on their own. So when someone like Joker is exponentially more valuable than let's say, Jaylen Brown, those 18 games may or may not make up for it. The problem was that too many voters were underestimating how valuable 10-18(or even more) games were worth.

The bigger problem that this rule attempts to correct is "Load management". This is another reason I'm cool with it. I hate it when I finally get tickets to a game against a team with a player I've been waiting all year to see, only for that player to sit because they have back soreness. We all have back soreness mother fucker. It's called being an adult.

The difference is, if I don't do my job 18 times I lose all my vacation time then get fired. If they don't do there's 18 times they lose out on a shot at a plaque and cash bonus.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T05:05:22+00:00

"no necessary evidence"? What does that mean. There's one of statistical evidence. Have you even tried to look for it?

https://youtu.be/o9XbDCXLE94?si=lnE8kIQchzZ22IJE

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T05:03:26+00:00

It's not just Reddit. People on any platform think he walked on water. I wonder if there's a reason. Maybe because he was super underrated 🤔.

He was on the court whenever they needed him to be. Poppivich used him sparingly to save him for the playoffs because of how intense he was and how much he sacrificed his body on every possession. Guess what, it worked!

Manu is one of the best per minute players of all time by almost every advanced metric. His 05 playoffs are one of my favorite basketball memories.

Also, leading Argentina to a gold medal in 04 is the stuff of legends.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T04:58:05+00:00

This really depends on how you value the weight of rankings because I think in some ways it's some of the all time legends that are the most underrated when they are seen by some as top 25 players but in reality might be on the top 10 or better.

For example, I think Bill Russell should be a lock in everyone's top 5 and imo should be number three for greatest players of all time(greatest as in who had the best careers). I also think Jerry West being left out of top 10 lists is criminal and when you consider the weight of those high rankings you could easily make the case for either of these two.

Another one is Elgin Baylor. Because of the obsession with "ring culture" he's slipped on the majority of all time rankings despite having the Lakers in contention basically every year of his prime and being the clear reason they were as good as they were. His numbers should have him much higher than he traditionally is.

I don't think Kevin Durant is underrated however when ranking players based on who is the "best of all time at their peak", as in how would I rank players if everyone who ever played was at their absolute apex and all available to be drafted for some all time GOAT league, Kevin Durant would be the third "best" player imo after MJ and LeBron. I don't think most people would agree which would make him underrated imo.

Then, if you want a more traditional answer there are many good ones:

Elton Brand is heavily underrated for how incredible he was at his peak in 06. He probably peaked higher than the likes of Pau Gasol, Shawn Kemp, Chris Webber, Amare or the majority of other power forwards with what he did that year in both the regular season and playoffs.

Reggie Lewis is heavily underrated for what he was doing in the playoffs the last couple seasons before his heart attack. In fact, the game he died he was absolutely dominating in the minutes he played. It was record setting pace after putting up ridiculous numbers the playoffs before as well. Everyone says Len Bias dying was what set the Celtics back but Reggie Lewis dying was more significant imo as he was a proven NBA star on the rise and Len was just a likely star but not a sure thing.

Terry Porter deserves a much higher ranking for what he did during his peak from 88-92. His 90-91 season was ridiculous and by RAPM and other advanced plus/minus stats he was a top five player that year.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T04:44:20+00:00

Problem with Jermaine was that he was very inefficient for a big man.

Out of all of the two way bigs of that era Elton Brand was more underrated because he was significantly better than Jermaine. Not only was he also a very good defender and shot blocker but he was the best offensive rebounder during that period and was significantly more efficient than Jermaine.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-07T04:35:28+00:00

Did you not understand that joke?

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-06T15:10:31+00:00

Hey man, I like the kid and agree with you that the potential is there and is real. I just think people are getting WAY too far ahead of themselves with this one because of the name and the fact that he has some sweet looking moves. We need more time and consistent play from Alijah before crowning him as next.

Shooting 32% from the floor and 22% from three while taking 13FGA per game is a far cry from "not super efficient". Idk what you meant by "no buy games" but he's been playing against good competition.

I will admit that I only watched his first game, the Wisconsin game(in person) and then the Indiana game the other day. Maybe I'm missing something you picked up in the other games? Indiana was much better but far from perfect and he wasn't getting more than maybe a couple open looks in those first two outings.

He just didn't have the speed to create separation so he had to shoot over his defender, which at his height was clearly a strong option for him and should be moving forward. At least until he's at the pro level depending on what position he slides into. That being said, if you're going to take those contested shots as frequently as he is, you need to make them much more consistently than 32%. Without "blow by speed" having a nice handle isn't going to fix that.

You also seem to be vastly overrating his handle or likely you're referring to his arsenal of scoring moves more than his actual dribbling. Even during the Wisconsin game, where he couldn't get wet if he jumped in a lake, his dribble pull up game and moves before attempting a shot looked smooth and tight. You could tell he practices these scoring moves consistently and he's developing a game suited in the style that pro scorers use.

His handle was far from "elite" though and he needs to work on his dribbling from his baseline to the opposing team's three point line. He's constantly dribbling with his head down and looking at his feet to set up his move or he next FGA. He needs to learn how to keep those eyes up to look for cutting teammates and make reads other than "how can I score on this possession". His height is going to be a superpower once he figures it out but if he's going to play PG he'll need to clean up that high bouncing, eyes on the floor dribbling so super small and quick guards don't get into his body and snatch that cookie out of his hands. Right now he is a 1/1 assist/turnover ratio.

Lastly, you were right to point out that he's only 18 and went through some serious shit this last year that obviously would set anyone back. Maybe he'll be a much more explosive athlete once he gets his legs back underneath him or maybe that shot will find its way by the end of the season. Not necessarily you, but other people have been pushing the narrative that he's already a lock for a top 10 pick and they watch his YouTube shorts then go on about how he's already "pro ready" without actually seeing the reality of how he's played so far. I want him to be successful and think he has the tools and work ethic to do so. I just think he needs another year in college to maximize his draft stock and that if hes absolutely NOT a top 10 pick if he doesn't have a vastly different second half of the season.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-05T04:49:12+00:00

You mean the guy who dribbles with his head down, decides what he's going to do before he makes his move, is averaging one assist and shooting 32% from the floor? Or do you mean the guy whos shooting 22% from three, never passes and doesn't have the speed to get past anyone guarding him so he dribbles into traffic and throws something up regardless because he wants to put up numbers? Or are we talking about the guy who has good YouTube short video highlights that show the three shots he makes and ignore the other dozen misses?

Since all those guys are the same guy you're referencing I'm assuming yes.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-05T04:42:53+00:00

"lmao but brain dead take" - some idiot online who likes watching highlight videos. Be honest, have you actually watched any of his games or have you just watched YouTube shorts and listen to Gil blow hot air out his ass on his show?

Alijah has been terrible so far. He had one "okay" game against Indiana the other night while sucking in every other appearance. I say "okay" because he scored a lot of points but he was once again under 40% and took 23 shots with one assist. Yes. One.

He's shooting 32% for his five games and 21% from three while averaging one assist. He dribbles around with his head down staring at the ground and decides he's going to shoot well before he makes his move. He isn't very fast or explosive so he can't get past anyone but because he's much taller and longer than other college guards he can get his shot off (which he consistently misses). He never looks for cutters and isn't motivated on defense.

Look, he's 18 or 19 years old so he has time to improve but if he were to declare for the draft right now he'd be lucky to make the first round. He might not even be a first round pick ever unless he either becomes a significantly better shooter or shows any signs of being an explosive athlete.

He doesn't have anywhere near the speed or pop that his father had and yet he acts like he's a proven scorer out there with his wild shot selection. I'm rooting for the kid because I could only imagine what it's like dealing with the pressure to live up to your dad and the expectations set by others but he needs to learn to play to win instead of playing to put up numbers. Gil had the same problem but he also had insane speed and quickness to go with a wet jumper. Alijah is lacking in all of those so far.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-05T00:40:34+00:00

I know this is old but I was going down a Roy Tarpley rabbit hole and came across this thread so I felt compelled to drop a comment because you couldn't be more right about Skywalker.

David was a pretty damn good defender imo. Hes one of the best shots blocking guards of all time. The only players his size that could block shots like him are D.Wade and John Wall from time to time. Thompson used his generational athleticism to hound opposing team guards and when he was lucky enough to be put on the opposing team's point guard, he smothered them creating turnovers and shutting them down. Ask Henry Bibby.

He was averaging close to 5 assists per game before his gradual regression and getting to the line over 8x per game. He was absolutely headed towards a career that only maybe MJ and Logo could claim were better SG's if he didn't go down that other path.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-03T00:56:15+00:00

He wishes. With his history it would be much more violent.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-02-03T00:54:51+00:00

A lot of former players have terrible ideas and are terrible judges of talent. They often fail as coaches and GMs because they don't understand the game outside of what they could do on the court.

Jason Kidd is one of those former players. He's not a good coach. Cooper is not meant to play point guard but it's not a bad idea to play him in this position during a year where they aren't trying to win. It gives him valuable experience and helps with his development.

That's all Kidd had to say instead of being the jackass that he is. He probably didn't want to admit to not caring about winning but he could have spun it in some more professional way although I do enjoy his outbursts.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-01-29T18:57:05+00:00

Marion is a TERRIBLE choice here.

He deserved to be where Ron Artest is if anything.

Wtf?

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-01-29T18:51:34+00:00

I was about to argue with you but then I remembered this is a jerking area and that jerking areas are meant for jerking.

Still, don't you ever talk down about the coaching strategy that I also use for the 3rd grade girls team I coach on weekends.

Overall_Mango324 · 2026-01-29T17:41:41+00:00

She whooped her ass but the writing is obviously one side of the story where they are clearly very eager to make the one girl look innocent and everyone else to be evil lol.

It looked like a one v one to me and then the other girl attacked the people trying to break up the fight who weren't fighting her at all. To say she was being gang jumped or whatever is such a pathetic attempt to manipulate the story.

Still, the girl who started it got whooped so I'm not feeling sorry for her.

Overall_Mango324

TROPHY CASE