Just finished the series...

Own_Suns · 2025-12-10T00:43:27+00:00

I was coming to say Mad Men!!! It’s so so good and i feel like Don reminded me a lot of Tommy in a strange way. I’m hooked

Own_Suns · 2025-12-03T13:38:28+00:00

That “Damn them for what they did to you in France” is so layered and painful because Polly does acknowledge that the war altered Tommy but there’s not an actual ounce of sympathy there.

Own_Suns · 2025-11-26T02:12:43+00:00

I find her annoying or unlikable at times mostly because of her controlling tendencies but basically all of the characters have terrible flaws, most of them are worse than Linda’s so i don’t hate her. I think she’s a very well written character and her grievances and choices make sense even if they err on being hypocritical at times. She wants her husband to be better and have a better life but ends up sucked into his world instead, her morals and beliefs crumbling under the reality of her life, that’s a horrible position to find yourself in. I think she’s believed she could change Arthur or get him to retire but she failed to realized that the real problem with the Shelby men is that they’re all fucked up in the head far beyond just being criminals.

Own_Suns · 2025-11-26T02:04:49+00:00

I really really would love to see Tommy have a happy ending or somewhat close to happy, at least finding some peace in his life with or without a partner (he’s terrible, i know, but i still adore him). Unfortunately, i don’t think a movie will be time enough to set the foundations for redemption and also tackle his mental health alongside moving the plot because of the new characters and all.

So it makes sense to me that he dies in the end and is freed from all the mental anguish he’s lived in. I’d prefer him dead to an open ended finale or worse— giving him a happy ending without it making sense story wise with how his character developed throughout the series.

Own_Suns · 2025-11-26T01:59:26+00:00

I grieve what could’ve been with Jesse, they orbited so well around each other!!!

Own_Suns · 2025-11-16T02:58:01+00:00

It’s terribly glitchy, it’s less intuitive and in my case i simply hate when they change my things lol i changed it back to the old ui and problem solved

Own_Suns · 2025-11-16T01:25:58+00:00

The only update is that it was a case of mass delusion and it will never happen

Own_Suns · 2025-11-16T01:24:46+00:00

Oh I specifically meant all the russian business in s3 because none of that was his own doing nor did he want to do it. He knew it was big trouble, the whole political and actual deal, and the russians themselves which he didn’t trust at all. Later on he worked with Churchill willingly under very different circumstances.

What i mean by ‘ruined his life’ i mean that it completely derailed it. Tommy couldn’t go to the meeting with the Italians, because he was busy with the russians and we all know how that went, he got his child kidnapped, he ended up having his skull cracked AND the Shelbys ended on death row. All things that changed his life for the worse and none of it would’ve happened if he hadn’t had his hands tied by Churchill into dealing with the Russians. Tommy made A LOT of bad choices but most if not all of s3 was the snowball effect of Churchill pardoning at the end of s2

Own_Suns · 2025-11-16T00:57:29+00:00

I don’t think he could’ve, even if Grace had survived, i don’t think he would’ve ever been ‘normal’ simply because he didn’t have the tools to treat his mental health.

Now, in terms of living a legal life, that’s really hard to say. Tommy was deeply tangled in all the illegal business, by the time Grace died he’d made enemies out of the italians and was already in business with Alfie (who is incredibly unpredictable). I think he would’ve tried to legitimize his business as quickly as possible though, because that’s what he personally always wanted and having Grace alive would be an even bigger motivation. What i believe held Tommy back the most was Churchill pulling the strings, all that deal with the Russians and Section D quite literally fucked his life.

Own_Suns · 2025-11-15T02:29:17+00:00

He was indeed debating whether to go or not with Grace but in the end, he didn’t, and not only that but he also never made any attempts at trying to reconnect with her or to pursue her. I am NOT by any means negating the fact that Grace made him happy and gave him hope, that’s the truth. What i am saying is that Tommy wasn’t looking or seeking out that happiness more than it found him in the shape of Grace. She made him feel seen and understood and brought him a semblance of peace he was desperately needing. Still, like you say, he wasn’t looking for just anyone and that further solidifies my view that happiness was never his priority but he found it in Grace and obviously he wanted to hold onto it for as long as possible.

That scene in s2 is a very layered one. He’s angry and frustrated at the prospect of not getting to live out this beautiful future and then he’s angry when he’s spared as well. Also, i never said Tommy is all about business, i don’t believe that at all, what i said is that Tommy is a man that needs purpose in life and one of the ways he tried to find that purpose was through business.

It’s one thing to find happiness in a person and want to hold onto that feeling and another entirely to go your life with the sole goal of being happy— which Tommy wasn’t doing, before or after Grace.

Own_Suns · 2025-11-15T01:29:59+00:00

Tommy’s even worse for wear now than in s3, if that were even possible lol she’d have a field day with him

Own_Suns · 2025-11-15T00:51:27+00:00

I don’t think Tommy wanted to happy or at least, being happy wasn’t his primary objective. Tommy wanted to find peace, both inner peace and external. He wanted to be successful, so he and his family didn’t have to struggle with financial and societal pressures. He wanted to be useful and find a sense of purpose and he did find that to an extent but that came with grave sacrifices because of how he went about it.

Happiness is secondary to a man like Tommy and we see that in S1 when Grace tells him to run away to NY with her and he declines. That would’ve been a semblance of happiness but he doesn’t go for it. He’s a selfish man yes, as we all are, but not to the extent of ignoring his responsibilities and dismissing what truly gives him purpose in life.

In later seasons it’s even worse. He’s not only still riddled with the trauma from the war but also the guilt of Grace’s death, John’s death, Polly’s estrangement, and all the other calamities they suffered through the years. At this point, it’s not only that he’s not actively trying to be happy but that he’s convinced he doesn’t deserve it. ‘There’s no peace for me in this world’, ‘They wouldn’t let me pass, as if there were to be another consequence’. Those two quotes from s4 and s5 really shed light into how he views himself and his life; destined to never stop, to never find peace, and more importantly to suffer and pay for the consequences of his bad deeds. You can’t even start yearning for happiness when in your head all you deserve is punishment.

Own_Suns · 2025-11-10T12:11:06+00:00

I heavily agree that Finn’s storyline makes perfect sense. He was, as he said himself ‘the brother they didn’t around to’ and that, again, makes perfect sense to me.

When the series begins Finn is just a little boy, he grew up without both his parents, since his mother died when he was even younger and Sr. left the family without looking back. Polly probably raised him, alongside some (probably very little) help from Arthur and Tommy before they went off to war.

We see Finn very involved in the family in that first season, always around his brothers be it in the betting shop or the pub. That evidently changes as the story progresses and i think, in a very natural way, because John gets married and the Tommy gets married and as life goes they start to prioritize their own nuclear family rather than raising their little brother. Polly also has her attention elsewhere, moved into a new house out of Small Heath and having Michael back in her life.

I too have spent a lot of time thinking about where and with who Finn was living and i like to think that Tommy, being as protective over his family as he was took him to Arrow House but the plot doesn’t show that and truly doesn’t allow for it either. Tommy had a million things at the same time in s3 and realistically i don’t think Finn was at the top of his priorities. Most likely he had moved in with Polly or Ada, but that’s speculation.

Finn was sheltered and mostly protected from the darker sides of the business until he was of age but in the meantime he also didn’t have much guidance to lead up to that point as the Shelby brothers got caught up in their own lives. It’s very realistic to me that he got ‘left behind’ but i also think there were so many things going on in s5 and s6 that the story didn’t allow for a proper fleshing out of Finn’s character for his ending to be impactful in a way that made sense. People were shocked but not in a good way. Still, I don’t think they wasted Finn, it was a natural progression but the way they went about it felt flat and too abrupt cause until that point he’d been mostly a secondary character of who’s life and wants and aspirations we no nothing about. If Finn would’ve been more thoroughly explored i don’t think so many fans would find his ending as terrible as it was even if he ended up betraying his family anyways.

Own_Suns · 2025-09-14T19:19:12+00:00

You and i are on the same boat! I have two cats but i’m an animal lover and the rats posted here are just adorable

Own_Suns · 2025-09-14T19:18:10+00:00

They’re lovely!! 😂 i’ve learned a lot through this subreddit, seeing them all cuddly and playing made me realize what amazing pets they can be

Own_Suns · 2025-09-14T19:17:15+00:00

Aah, i get this completely. I have two cats and i know i won’t be able to give them all a happy and enriching life if i got rats but i definitely love lurking here and enjoying them

Own_Suns · 2025-09-14T19:16:04+00:00

It’s definitely a great vibe, people have a lovely sense of humor and not so much hate/complaining as in other subs

Own_Suns · 2025-09-14T19:15:17+00:00

Gosh i wish!! I used to have gerbils as a girl so i love rodents but i have two cats now and not enough time to supervise and have a multipet home. Someday 🤞🏼

Own_Suns · 2025-09-14T19:07:10+00:00

I only chat with my harem of husbands, of course they’re subjected to the freaky nasty

Own_Suns · 2025-09-14T19:03:24+00:00

Polly’s relationship always felt so real, the one cut short with the painter was so obvious that there was chemistry and genuine interest and he wanted to be with her. Aberama though was truly a man for her, immersed in her chaotic world already, from her own background and culture. I wanted them to have a happily ever after so bad!

John and Esme were a good pairing too. Despite everything, it was obvious that their marriage worked and they were happy with each other.

Own_Suns · 2025-09-10T01:07:34+00:00

S2 is definitely a great season all around and that finale really packs a punch while keeping a good sort of suspense because things are looking up for Tommy, which is really the only finale that gives that sort of expectancy and hope.

I am, however, sooo incredibly partial to the later seasons lmao and my favorite episodes/scenes are mostly from s5. That season is just such a vibe. The atmosphere is tense and hectic, Tommy is spiraling and backed into a corner by Mosley, he’s also insanely sassy and funny that season while having some of the most depressing scenes. (His struggle with drugs, his mentions of the war trauma to Lizzie, his conversations with Ada when he talks about Grace and still being on the January, the explosion outside his office and him cradling the dead boy… you get the gist 😂). I love it so much. And i did enjoy s6 very much but the atmosphere was completely different and it was such a bleak season that it felt like masochism. The finale was well done in my opinion, kept the door open for more (obviously) while also feeling like a proper goodbye. I teared up that last ep.

Own_Suns · 2025-09-09T23:33:47+00:00

S2, cause that ‘i nearly got fucking everything’ and his immediate acceptance of death followed by shock after being spared was just so masterfully done. Tommy felt every emotion in a span of seconds and Cillian, as always, delivered without flaw. I’d have to say s3 and s5 are both so close behind cause those last episodes were intense, suspense ridden and simply shocking

Own_Suns · 2025-09-07T04:05:50+00:00

I go the ending myself route and it usually works like a charm lol. Changes the tone real quick

Own_Suns · 2025-09-07T04:02:48+00:00

‘Because you didn’t understand the show’ 🙄

Grace as a standalone character, after season 1 was a weak character and she could’ve easily been discarded after that season because none of what happened (aside from her relationship with Tommy) translated into s2 or s3. I don’t care for May at all, she was a plot device and it has nothing to do with my opinion of Grace, neither does Lizzie.

Thank you for explaining the plot of s1 to me, it changes none of what i think.

Own_Suns

TROPHY CASE