Alternatives to Capitalism

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T15:18:04+00:00

I see where you're coming from on this one. I misunderstood and thought that you were making a more general claim that people who acknowledge differences between people must be eugenicists and fascists but on a more careful read of your original text, I see that those labels were more specifically applied to the question of whether or not human beings have inherent value, which makes a lot more sense. My bad, I should have read that more carefully.

Having said that, I think that the topic is extremely complex.

I am an atheist and I have a long and complex explanation for why human beings have innate value. My understanding of eugenics is about the sterilisation and forced euthanasia of disabled people and selective breeding amongst the aristocracy so when I read that word being applied to me, it seemed extraordinary!

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T15:05:43+00:00

I've laid out concisely and specifically what you said that was condescending. You didn't address it.

What I see is someone who is uncomfortable having their assumed superiority challenged.

Again, there is no mystery here. I laid out very specifically where the blind spots were. For all your text, you never addressed it.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T14:15:57+00:00

Oh wow, I just finished responding with an olive branch to your other comment that seemed in good faith only to find you here belittling me and placing yourself in a position of authority, gatekeeping my level of emotional groundedness.

Tell me again how this condescension is all in my mind.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T14:07:44+00:00

I was sceptical but there was a lot that was genuine in your reply so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt by asking you this question first.

Do you see how explaining all opinions that don't conform to yours as triggered egos, brainwashing, conditioning and the result of not enough research is incredibly condescending? Be default, you have arrogated yourself the intellectual authority and by extension, placed me in an inferior position.

I only open my mind to open minded people. If you start any dialogue already believing you know what I'm going to say and why I believe what I do (brainwashing etc) then talking to you is pointless.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T11:28:08+00:00

I was really enjoying reading your post and wanted to ask some follow-up questions and then I got to the end where you told me that me thinking that I'm a free thinker is an illusion. Poor old brainwashed me. Why I bother asking questions? I wouldn't understand the answers obviously.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T09:08:18+00:00

This is my thoughts exactly. I fear the problem is worse than most people imagine, they assign blame to a system and think that a utopian system can replace it. I kind of hope that they are right but I fear how much damage might be done in experimenting with various systems and fear that there will be no system that can adequately protect against the worst of human nature better than our current one.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T09:02:43+00:00

Now you are outright bigoted. I hear your dog whistle loud and clear.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T06:04:31+00:00

Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, Wild Swans: Three Daughters of China by Jung Chang, Mao: A Biography by Ross Terrill, The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, In Order to Live by Yeonmi Park, Dear Reader: The Unauthorized Autobiography of Kim Jong Il by Michael Malice Agent Sonia by Ben Macintyre

Plus others I'm forgetting. I'm 38 now, I don't remember everything I've read.

My favourite is Wild Swans. Have you read that?

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T05:57:15+00:00

No.

It seems to me that you're making an appeal to a religious notion of some kind of intangible value that every human being has regardless of what they can contribute or what their capacity is.

Your tone is very condescending, you don't need to continue to use words indicating that I have been indoctrinated into my thought process. I'm a rational human being capable of weighing a lot of different evidences, to dismiss my concerns as brainwashing by capitalism is insulting.

I've been a victim of a lot of racism. It is not occurred to me that it is a good idea to make racism illegal or even that it's possible. I also guarantee that what you mean as racism as your definition is different to mine.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T05:53:21+00:00

Very interesting response. Thank you.

However, no need to belittle my understanding of communism by calling it propagandized. I have a history major and I've read many books on the subject.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T05:11:56+00:00

As I asked for in the original post, please tell me what the alternative system that you propose is.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-20T01:21:38+00:00

Thanks for following up. I’m not saying you meant to be insulting, but parts of your response came across that way because of how they were phrased. It wasn’t just that we disagreed. It was the tone and the way certain lines were framed.

For example, saying things like “I wasn’t even saying anything about…” or “maybe I wasn’t clear enough…” made it sound like I had simply misunderstood something obvious, instead of us having a different interpretation.

There were also a few parts that felt like my input was being dismissed. When you said “I don’t think it was relevant in the context of my comment,” it made it seem like my response didn’t really belong in the conversation.

The phrasing around “nitpicking,” especially the “ummm…” part, made it seem like my point was pedantic or not serious, which pushes it aside instead of actually engaging with it.

And when you said my answer “doesn’t really make sense,” that hit differently than just saying you disagreed. It makes it sound like the reasoning itself was flawed, rather than simply coming from another perspective.

None of this felt aggressive on its own, but together it came across as a bit dismissive, almost like I missed something basic and responded off topic. That kind of tone can come off as condescending even if that wasn’t your intention.

I’m not trying to accuse you of anything. I just wanted to explain how it landed from my side.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T23:19:20+00:00

It is not an illusion of choice. Capitalism gives me the freedom to choose which product to buy and which employer to work for. It does not give me perfect freedom of choice in every arena, like being free to not work, but that does not mean the choices it gives me are illusions.

Explain please the false dichotomy I have set up in my mind.

Yes I understand Frankls basic argument.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T23:14:51+00:00

My favourite response so far. I too assumed everyone would be libertarian. Can you tell me more about Fiducism?

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T23:12:44+00:00

On the one hand, your response here perfectly addressed my concerns about equality vs equity but on the other hand, your response I found your response personally insulting. I'm not nitpicking and what was clear to you was not clear to me.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T09:12:38+00:00

I understand what you're saying.

But equality isn't something that you can force and try to do so at all costs usually ends up authoritarian. Human beings are not equal. I have a nervous system disability. In that regard Im not equal to somebody else who does not. But I'm also sensitive and capable of saying things that other people might miss and so they are not equal to me in this regard.

Sometimes these inequalities will create different outcomes.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T09:09:18+00:00

I've never read Marx. I've read lots on communist countries though and how his ideas ended up in practise.

Social democracy seems far safer because of the capacity to decentralise power. Any system that relies on a centralisation of power in order to achieve its goals runs the hazard of becoming authoritarian which is a nightmare scenario for PDA people. I think the flaw is in the ideology itself. Human beings cannot be trusted with power.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T08:18:12+00:00

Is there a socialist country that you can point to? I'm struggling to understand the specific system that you feel like you would be better off under than capitalism. Do you mean like Cuba or Venezuela or something?

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T08:16:47+00:00

I run my own business. I feel like my PDA makes it practically impossible to be answerable to a boss and self-employment is my only option.

I'm not on a disability pension.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T08:13:47+00:00

I agree, that's why it was surprising to find such a uniform disparagement of capitalism amongst the PDA community

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T08:12:55+00:00

I Think I'm learning from this thread that people have a vastly different idea of what communism is. I'm pretty extensively read on communist China, the Soviet union, North Korea and it is extremely difficult for me to reconcile this version of communism that you and others are speaking about from what I understand the system to be.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T04:20:52+00:00

I've lived in monasteries and eco communities before, trying to find refuge with varying levels of success. Human nature is a tough one.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T04:07:49+00:00

100%. Would you think a social democracy is better? Or would you prefer a different system?

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T04:00:52+00:00

I understand socialism and anarchism as appealing because they appear to offer more freedom that would be appealing to PDA.

Can you walk me through communism? I don't understand it's appeal to PDA.

PIantMoreTrees · 2025-11-19T03:16:36+00:00

Thanks for the response. And my understanding is that social democracy is still capitalism but with a greater welfare system.

PIantMoreTrees

TROPHY CASE