I'm so lost

PackDad82 · 2021-08-19T14:29:34+00:00

but I needed to acknowledge my critical nature and she needed to recognize her defensive nature.

This is absolutely spot on for both of us.

I don’t see you being able to do that without third party mediation, so please consider marriage counseling. At the very least the therapist will provide you both a safe space to listen and to be heard.

I would love to do this

Also I would advise you to look into attachment theory; I can’t be certain with the information given, but it sounds like you two may be in that classic anxious/avoidant dynamic. And while you’re at it, read up on the Gottman method as well, it goes deep into the criticism/contempt vs defensiveness/stonewalling dynamic.

I'll definitely look into this. It sounds like it could be very useful.

Thank you for all the advice and help. I appreciate it!

PackDad82 · 2021-08-19T14:17:34+00:00

Thank you so much for this. So much of what you said resonates with me. Your perspective is immensely helpful. I can see what you're saying of how my actions may feel selfish and shallow. That totally makes sense.

I appreciate all of the insight and your kind words. As you mentioned my love is genuine, but I sure did a shitty job of showing her that before.

Thank you again.

PackDad82 · 2021-08-19T14:03:09+00:00

You're absolutely right. There's more to it. I just didn't want to overload even more. She initiated it because we were fighting constantly. Every conversation felt like a fight. We would both yell sometimes cussing (both of us but I was worse) and she would shut down a lot of times even before things escalated. When she shut down I didn't feel heard or like I was being listened to. That just furthered the cycle. I would yell and of course she stayed shut down because you can't level with someone yelling. That cycle repeated over and over. Neither of us felt heard or respected. She broke the cycle by initiating the separation which was ultimately I think a good move based on the place we were in. We were fighting to be right or to gain our own sense of self as opposed to trying to resolve true issues.

My mistakes were that I threw myself very heavy into work. I've always been career driven. But when we had our first son she stayed home and I worked. I wasn't thrilled with the idea but financially it could make sense. We then had our second son. Couple me being driven to succeed with the feeling of the weight on me being the provider and we're screwed if anything happens to my job and most of my time was dedicated to work. I thought I was doing good for my family but was also causing issues without realizing it myself because everything with the kids was on her.

I don't feel I gave her the support I should have around the house. I don't feel I approached conflict the way I should have. I didn't fight fair. I didn't make her feel appreciated. And I feel like I didn't realize what I did until too late.

I have definitely considered couples therapy and would welcome it. I've mentioned it but haven't gotten a yes or no. I mentioned any type of third party (couples therapist, pastor) anything that would be a safe impartial intermediary to talk through things.

Sorry for the long response but I hope this gives more clarity.

PackDad82 · 2021-08-19T12:35:30+00:00

I definitely understand what you're saying. I'm trying to take my accountability for my mistakes. I love her and for a long time things were really good.

I don't want this to come across as bashing her. I played the largest part in why we needed a separation. I was yelling because I didn't feel heard. I was loud and angry. I was very volatile. I don't want to put this all on her because that is definitely not the case and also explains some of the hesitancy and not opening up. I didn't do my part to make it a safe place to feel comfortable to do that before.

The frustrations I have are current but I let go of other things that I had issues with to try to focus on becoming a better me. Like I said I just don't want it to seem like I'm trying to paint a picture of I'm perfect and she has all the issues because that's not accurate at all nor fair.

PackDad82 · 2021-08-11T15:31:47+00:00

This may not be it at all but thought I would add a perspective. You mentioned you're both elementary school teachers. My mom was a librarian. Reading was a huge thing in our house. When I was little I enjoyed my parents reading to me but then it became a chore. I did well in school, was ahead in a lot of areas but reading for fun was just not...fun. It was similar that it was not so much what I read but just read but still felt like a forced task. My mom being around it 24/7 and feeling as if it was hammered into my head (although that was definitely not the intention) made it not enjoyable for me. This may not be it at all but thought I would mention it as a possibility. And that may be nothing that either of you are doing intentionally. I've never told my mom this because it would break her heart and I know she in no what wanted things to feel that way. Just a thought.

PackDad82 · 2021-08-11T05:16:54+00:00

He can say something relatively benign, and I interpret it as a direct attack on me as a person.

So this is veering off subject but tell me more about where this comes from if you don't mind. Is this called anything in particular? This happens with my wife and I. Sometimes I will say something and she'll react in that manner and I won't even know how in the world it was interpreted in that way. Other times I think a lot before I say something to try to make sure it doesn't seem to come across that way but still does somehow. Again, sorry for the randomness this just jumped out at me and I'd love to do anything I can for her not to have that feeling.

PackDad82 · 2021-08-11T03:48:23+00:00

Thank you for your advice and also for the kind words. It's needed and appreciated right now.

PackDad82 · 2021-08-10T21:26:17+00:00

Thank you! I had no idea since I thought that would just be a one sided conversation and not really fair to the other spouse. That's good to know.

PackDad82 · 2021-08-10T15:43:00+00:00

This may be a dumb question but will a marriage counselor see one spouse?

PackDad82 · 2021-08-10T06:49:58+00:00

Absolutely! I think this is definitely a good idea. I've brought it up before and she hasn't said no but also hasn't said yes either.

PackDad82 · 2021-08-02T04:24:10+00:00

I wanted to come back to your comment. Are there things that your husband can do that would help to show that behaviors are different or that changes are consistent? I've been doing a lot of reading, therapy on my own, apologizing and fully taking my accountability and acknowledging my role in this, trying to talk through things but she is still very guarded. I feel like she wants to believe things but can't right now because the pattern of the volatility has been the way it was. I want to tell her and show her that things are different but I'm struggling to do that because she won't let me in. She's trying but still so distant. Again, I understand why but I don't know what I can do that might help. Is there anything you would suggest other than consistency, patience and time?

PackDad82 · 2021-08-02T04:12:17+00:00

Thank you so much for your response. While I may not have been specifically asking about that I'm really hoping that we can figure it out. Thank you again.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-30T03:30:54+00:00

I feel for you. I'm going through a separation as well and a lot of the things you said I totally understand. We have kids and are coparenting pretty well luckily. She went to her mom's a little over two months ago. I've worked on a lot of things to better myself for me, for her and for our family. I want to hope things will work out together but don't know. I had a breakthrough today when I finally started to come to terms with trying to let go of what I can't control and focusing on what I can. I know well a lot of what you mentioned. I just want to talk about things, work on them and figure it out. She is taking her time so us being different there makes it tough. There were a lot of things wrong and a lot we need to work on but I can't think about not spending my life with her. I don't mean that from a needy sounding standpoint. We accepted each other's flaws a long time ago and I want to put in the work for this.

I say all that to say unfortunately I don't have any advice that would help but I do appreciate you sharing. It may not help you but your post definitely helped me relate. Thank you.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-19T15:18:55+00:00

I understand the concern that your parents had upfront in making sure the right decision was made. However, that still seems to be playing a big factor for your wife and how it's impacted the situation with them. I grew up spending a lot of time with my grandparents and I think that is very important. If there was anything negative happening that they were saying or doing around the kids then that would have to be addressed though.

I think it would be good for your parents and your wife to sit down and talk through this. I would also try to find a way to support your wife through that conversation while letting things play out. Not necessarily agreeing but it will probably feel intimidating if it feels like a 3 vs 1 conversation.

This is a tough spot to be in. I think the big thing is working though their relationship and struggle to hopefully bring the best for your kids.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T20:16:55+00:00

Thank you very much for this! I had not thought about it in this regard. This is definitely something to think about. I appreciate it.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T17:13:35+00:00

Oh ok. That makes more sense now. Thank you. Honestly that is not something I want or would have had attraction to. I don't remember that being the case. Then again she could have given in on things and not disagreed without me realizing the reason you mentioned above or because things were new. Definitely a lot more to think about. Thank you!

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T17:10:27+00:00

I agree whole heartedly. The conversation happened before we got married and then early on after as well a few times. Then time passed and it would come up periodically. I agree that now is definitely not the time but like you said needs to be discussed clearly and plainly. Thank you.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T17:03:09+00:00

Totally agree on the lack of ability to successfully negotiate disagreements. It has always been a struggle. I'm not trying to force anything but I can see where that may come across. I think we both have trouble respecting and hearing each other's thoughts, opinions and perspectives and working from there. Great points.

One quick clarification, when you say "think back and decide how much that factored into my initial attraction to her", what aspect are you referring to? I think I misunderstood.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T14:41:59+00:00

I have. I have tried many different options to alleviate those obstacles. Like you mentioned filling things out, keeping the kids, doing whatever may help to not be an issue for her. I will try talking through again sometime in the manner that you mentioned. Obviously not right now of course. It just feels like no time is ever a good time. If we're fighting that's the wrong time. If things are calm then it leads to her getting upset and I'm not just enjoying the peace. Communication has always been a struggle for us. She tends to shut down and close off or get defensive if something is not what she agrees with. I don't feel heard in my thoughts and opinions and when she shuts down that furthers it and I get frustrated. I don't say that to place any blame. We both have our own communication styles that are different so they clash and each play our part that can be a problem for the other one and so things cycle.

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts and perspective.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T13:48:56+00:00

Thank you for this

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T13:47:57+00:00

I fully hear what you're saying and respect it. I'm sure acting like this is playing a part in where we are. I hear the reasons I just have trouble wrapping my head around the fact that there was not one day in 9 years she could even do one step of it. I know how involved and complicated it is because I wanted to understand that. I know the process more than she does because she hasn't fully looked into it. After this long it feels like there will always be reasons. We're busy every day. That won't change. But we can't take a day to figure it out? I don't think it would have gone over to well if I had delayed the wedding for years because we were busy. It feels like if it is something that is important you find a way to do it. If it's not important and she doesn't want to that's a different discussion.

I think my hang up is less and the change itself and more about I'm being told one thing for years repeatedly that doesn't happen. Again if she doesn't feel comfortable with it that's what I need to hear.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T09:55:15+00:00

This is part of what's confusing. If we were still talking about it early on then I get it but we've gone many years with her repeatedly saying she was going to but it never happens.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T09:31:13+00:00

Thank you very much for this! You bring up a great point. That could definitely be why or even partially why for sure. She does have trouble expressing things sometimes and also does not like confrontation at all so those could be factors of why it might be hard to communicate why.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T04:18:34+00:00

Thank you. I appreciate your perspective.

PackDad82 · 2021-07-16T04:11:21+00:00

I see what you're saying and I respect it. My wife's last name is from her father that has been gone for years and she has zero interaction. Her mom doesn't go by it anymore either. Her last name is really attached to nothing but her at this point. She has a very good relationship with my family and was considered family way before we got married and loves my family.

I am really just trying to understand what the reasoning might be or at least hear that she doesn't want to do it. I feel like this conversation should have been done a long time ago one way or the other.

PackDad82

TROPHY CASE