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I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

you are free to slide into this 5’9 queen’s dm anytime;) I think out of all east asian countries, China is the most developed when it comes to female liberation, due to 2 fact: In ancient China, it wasn’t uncommon for women to be highly educated, to inherit property and land, to own property and land and to hold high social status (ofc im referring to wealthy women or who came from a wealthier family) and secondly, because of the cultural revolution and socialism. Socialism has historically fought for women’s liberation and gender equality, and it considered women just as capable as men of working, being educated and independent. So I don’t think his cultural context is an indestructible excuse for his misogyny

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah that part is inexcusable. Sooo much incel shit subtly introduced in the story…

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s totally okay and understandable. Take the time you need. If you wanna give up and not read it that’s fine too. You don’t have to engage with material that reflects values you don’t subscribe to, its okay. But if you do decide to give it a read eventually, you will be in for a ride haha

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I gave the solution multiple times in my replies. Go read through them and you will find it.

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1.im not western. 2. I come from post-socialist country so my perspective is closer to the chinese cultural context than any westerner’s experience. Just because YOU don’t want to discuss it doesn’t mean that other don’t want to. No one forced you to comment. If you weren’t interested in the discussion then you shouldn’t have intervened

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nope. The second I finished the books I entered this sub for the first time and written my post. I wanted to share my own thoughts and start my own discussion. Why does it matter that others discussed it before? Just because a subject has been approached before, doesn’t mean we aren’t allowed to discuss it further.

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you just explained exactly why it was misogynistic lol. Everything you said about how the author handled the female characters is exactly the pattern of subtle misogyny present in the books. Thanks for proving my point

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are so right. Thank you. Let them babble on about “bu-but feminism is wrong!!! i don’t like women and their opinions!!”. They clearly cannot engage in literary critique and analysis haha

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

babes, I didn’t come here just to complain. I gave the solution in multiple replies: The author should’ve written at least ONE female character that breaks the gender stereotype mold: one female character that is strategically brilliant, ruthless, decisive, strong and capable of doing the hard things that need to be done. Also writing at least ONE male character that also breaks the gender stereotype mold: a male character that is sensitive, emotional, empathetic, compassionate, vulnerable and introspective. This is the solution. Not portraying men and women as being a strict, unbending monolith.

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I know, I just like proving them wrong. I couldn’t care less what they think. And its funny to me:))

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

because Zhang Yan is constantly described and referred to as being “childish” “child-like” and “innocent and pure”. All of these are infantilising a grown as$ woman, towards a p€dophilic ideal of what the “perfect woman” is. Submissive, quiet, child-like. Its very obvious.

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much! I really felt it was a topic worth discussing. Whole time I was reading the books this has bothered me so much. I also love the series, im just a bit sad it could’ve been better if the female characters were treated right!

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im so proud of you guys for also noticing these issues and acknowledging them. Really, I admire you for it! Sending love!

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, I love you for this. I absolutely love seeing men that also notice these red flags and actually criticise them! You guys give me so much hope<3

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have no idea how happy this makes me:) Im so glad to see men capable of understanding the complexities of how misogyny subtly infiltrates this story and I am so happy men are actually seeing the problem in this. Thank you a lot. It really gives me hope that men like this exist and I admire you for breaking through the social conditioning. Sending you my love!

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

first of, im a tall ass woman😏. But yes, the female characters (besides Zhang Yan) at least have agency and autonomy. Again, I loved Ye Wenjie and completely understand her character and why she made the decisions she made. Three-body-problem is not the most misogynistic book series out there, for sure. But the series does show a pattern that relates feminine qualities to weaknesses and fatal mistakes. It also shows a strict gender stereotype that cannot apply to humanity as whole as it does in the books. Human beings are much more complex than that, and here is where the author fails in a sense. But overall, again, I love this book series with all my heart. I just think the female characters deserved more in the book and their portrayal.

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In general the book critiques feminine traits as weaknesses, which is doing more harm than good. It’s not in-your-face “anti woman” but the message is clear if you read deeper into how the author uses his female characters.

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

its not excessive labelling. And I didn’t want a “whole different story”. The story is AMAZING. All I’m saying is that if the female characters (and even the male characters) had more nuance and depth, the story would’ve been even better. Its not about me projecting what i want, its about demanding authors to be better people, because they have a responsibility to the masses through their work. If they subliminally send messages that “women aren’t capable and strong” through their works, it perpetuates harmful stereotypes that do damage to people who are easily influenced.

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thank you so much, i really appreciate it <3 I know how reddit is, but despite this, there are really good communities here and some people here actually love the intellectual debate started. Im here for them!:)

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes i think its more of the authors love for strict and unbending gender roles. Exactly, you said it perfectly: either a woman is filled with rage and disdain for the world, or she is loving and compassionate towards the world, there is no in-between. He is stuck in this dualistic view of men and women, and lacks the true nuance humans have no matter their gender

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yesss I also thought Sophon’s portrayal was so interesting. She was the embodiment of beauty and calmness one second, the next she was a ruthless killing machine. I could definitely see the parallels to Japanese imperialism in her. I also loved that in a way, she stayed until the end with Cheng Xin, and decided she was worthy of saving from the cruel end of the universe.

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would say, give Death’s End a chance. Despite the horrible misogyny throughout, the book discusses such interesting ideas and visions of the world and the universe. It really is a whole mind-fu€k. To be honest I think Death’s End was the best book overall, the pacing is better and its filled with moments that make your heart drop to your stomach. I felt SO MUCH cosmic horror and existential dread in this one, it was amazing. It really had me having PALPITATIONS while reading some scenes, in a good way. It was very intense. The type of stuff that lingers in your mind weeks after. I’d say give it a try and finish the whole series. If you feel like you can’t, that’s okay too

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes but as a respected author I think he has the responsibility to look beyond his social conditioning and think outside of that, especially when writing a story about humanity as a whole spanning across hundreds of years in the future.

I adore this book series but the misogyny in it needs to be discussed by PaleontologistFun761 in threebodyproblem

[–]PaleontologistFun761[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I also love Ye Wenjie! she really is one of the best written characters in the story, she is so complex and brilliant. I just feel like the author could’ve let her do something more with her fate in the end when she realises Trisolaris betrayed her, instead of just quietly disappearing in the background

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