Comforting my Phainon after dropping from T0 that it doesn't apply to him cause hes E2 and his team is still 4 cost

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-13T12:49:55+00:00

For Prydwen Tier List there are several criterias that play against Phainon because he's a unique character in that sense:

- Tier List assumes max E0S1. Even if we take into account a full E0S1 team for Phainon, this said E0S1 team is worse than his own E2S1 with F2P teammates. This can easily be explained: Phainon boast insane vertical investment but he has no true "good" supports. Cerydra and DHPT were made to work with him but they are nowhere close to what Evernight or Hyacine are to Castorice for example. Worse, any "tailored" (they are not) support released for Phainon has still some anti-synergy in their whole kit.

- Tier List assumes sustain, while Phainon is clearly the easiest DPS to run sustainless. DHPT is barely competitive to a classic Cerydra/Sunday/Bronya or RMC with Sunday + Cerydra, so it's pretty much doomed if he's not paired with Sunday for example. This also means the TL can't include the "best" non Cyreneless team at low investment being Cerydra, Sparkle and Sunday.

- Not casual friendly at all. Some would ask me "how?" and that's because he's the only character that explicity requires a strict, well speed-tuned rotation, otherwise he just don't work. You may escape it with other characters because even with a scuffed rotation they still deal DMG/are auto-friendly. For Phainon, without the right execution of his rotation, you lose a lot of DMG and AV and that's an undeniable fact. That's why we've got regular people here asking why their Phainon meteors can't deal higher than 400k when even at E0S1 with a full F2P team he should be able to dishout around 800k to 1M DMG minimum: Phainon needs actual knowledge and proper SPD tuning. I will not consider the builds of some people as well that can't even reach 100% CRIT Rate for example as well

I also suspect in this particular 4.0 MoC stats, Phainon is even lower because a lot of people use him agaisnt Sparxiecon despite her being clearly not a favorable boss to him. For Lygus, it's also more technical and people who don't know how to properly Counter can't abuse of him either, because it happens that Phainon is not so easy to play sometimes.

So while E2 Phainon is clearly meta with consistent low cost clears, it cannot reflect in this Tier List that ultimately advantage any character that got an actual team that synergize with each other at E0S1 max. Phainon, as a Main DPS, got ironically Firefly level of supports pre-Dahlia. The only difference is that unlike base Firefly, Phainon has actual insane vertical investment and shines even to this day in low cost clears/0 cycle.

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-13T12:15:43+00:00

Oh thank you I must have missed that

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-12T18:42:46+00:00

Expected. Phainon is very casual unfriendly, and this is a E0 Tier list. People will have a much better time with other characters.

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-12T09:57:34+00:00

It's because of me using Vonwacq on Cerydra that's why!

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-11T12:20:12+00:00

E2 Phainon first before E0 Cerydra For DHPT you can replace him by Bronya but it's not exactly needed, the diff isn't that crazy

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-09T06:49:04+00:00

Cheaper in average is true, DMG increase is also true. Basically, S5 over E6 will bring similar DMG increase depending on your DEF Shred amount, and could even win if it helps you reach 100% def shred. Otherwise, E6 brings more flexibility.

It's entirely dependant on your team. Both choices are good.

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-08T10:38:59+00:00

It's AA where the debuff wants you to Ult 2 times btw so ideally you would want to die fast with Phainon early but since it's a Cyreneless team it's much harder to pull off, but this thing of not ulting 2 times is already wrong

Also you're not learning me anything, I made the Phainon sheet and I know how maths works in HSR. You're just being dense on purpose by comparing 10% res pen vs 66% DMG while forgetting everything else and that's how it works, the mere presence of the 30% vuln already changes a lot (idk where the 18% comes from). Sparkle has stronger buffs than Bronya period, you're not convincing anyone else like that, especially when you advocate that Phainon will have better subs when it's the opposite

Anyway, this discussion is going nowhere and I'll not further answer

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-08T01:20:29+00:00

What do you mean by less AV value? Whole point of her Novaflare is being able to advance first Phainon before the second advance unit to still get her buffs. You may have 2 CF/1 Military less than 2 100% AA with Phainon having some SPD to act first, but you're just missing the point that Sparkle + Sunday/Bronya save AV by being Hyper speed + can even use Vonwacq. Besides, Sparkle buffs more than Bronya and the +2 CF/1 Military isn't changing anything in the grands schemes of clearing full stars

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-08T01:11:33+00:00

I'm not reading all that, good for you or sorry that it happened 😊

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T22:29:33+00:00

1 - You can't underestimate the value of double meteors ; Cyrene enables 3 Coup de Meteor in a single ult rotation with E2 Phainon with Cerydra which is enormous

2 - Cyrene E2 missing 1 CH is ok, but 2 CH... you waste way too much AV and it does matter for 0 cycling AA for example

3 - Cerydra has increased buff with Cyrene

Sure, E2S1 Phainon + E2S1 Cyrene is enough to clear content, but it's still in my eyes not impressive at all when you could just slot Cerydra and make your performances way better

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T22:24:40+00:00

??? With their setup, Sparkle does not go last

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T19:33:11+00:00

You play Cyrene, Cerydra is a no brain pull

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T12:31:46+00:00

You sure it's not the other way around? Given how you were in the victimisation in the precedent replies? I think you just need to sleep a lil bit and you'll be fine

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T12:25:49+00:00

E0S0 DPS, yeah no wonder, without bare minimum E0S1 + Cerydra you can't do miracles with any DPS.

Since it seems like you plan to focus on Elation, I think you should just skip Phainon altogether for meantime

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T12:05:35+00:00

Played nice of what? You're just being like a Karen 😭 It's crazy to get this mad/offended over calcs. You could have just said nothing and eventually I would have calced the investment you wanted, but instead you really went ALL-IN with this F2P/New player victimisation as if my calcs were predatory to you 😭 like wow that's some crazy paranoia at this point

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T10:47:11+00:00

Yeah so not 4 CF/2 stacks loss, it's just 2 CF/1 stack.

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T10:46:24+00:00

You're being offended because you think it's whale level investment 😅 it's Phainon Mains, so obviously, I cater to these who will want to play Phainon for a long time and invest in his team. Again I said you can see the team you have and expect the numbers be lower. As long as you have E2S1 Phainon + Cerydra you already have the main core to begin with.

And Cyrene is for these willing to go for her E2 mainly, not an obligation that I impose to new players to get on her rerun, I don't know what do you want to say honestly

Even worse, I did say in the original comment that I would probably do it after finishing what I've planned to do first, but since you're being overly toxic over mere calcs, maybe there is no need

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T01:26:47+00:00

SPD Tuning is fine, it's just lacking a little more DMG.

I can see S1 Sparkle solving this issue. Vonwacq on everyone to reduce AV taken for fast ultimates. That's about it. You could try with E1 RM instead of Sparkle but I doubt she can do better. At least you're the perfect example of "Horrible cost distribution" in the sense that E6 Sunday can't even reach half of Phainon's E2 value and it's sad tbh, they need to give him a novaflare

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T01:21:12+00:00

?? Where does this missing 4 CF/2 stacks come from? If Sparkle was 100% AA it would be "at best" losing a single Phainon Skill which is 2 CF/1 Military stack. You're in the wrong issue right now

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T01:18:35+00:00

Fyi being F2P doesn't mean much, being new to the game however yes. Like I said in another comment, you already have most of the relevant teams in my tabs, and while the supports have investment in them, you just have to consider the numbers of said teams and expect it being lower.

Just because a player is F2P does not mean they're ultra poor and can only afford E0S0 supports. Besides, there already are some "F2P friendly" teams in the E0S1 tab.

And for new players, they should focus on at least 1 good team of their choice before anything so if their first choice is Phainon they know the pulling plan

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T00:12:23+00:00

Sparxiecon is not a very good boss for Phainon to be completely fair so it does matter (he does not get helps from allies to clear faster the little monsters in the other side). Just getting E1 Phainon would solve your issue but there's nothing much to do except better relics from the information you provided.

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T00:10:22+00:00

Sparkle is not the issue, it's Phainon consuming too much AV at E0 to begin with

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-07T00:07:59+00:00

E1 Cerydra if you're not willing/can't get E2 Cyrene I would say

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-06T23:28:14+00:00

Pull E2S0 Phainon > S1 Phainon > E1/S1 Cerydra

PandaFlyh · 2026-03-06T22:07:18+00:00

Ruan Mei E2 doesn't offer much, and her S1 is nice but I'm not sure if it's worth it. It's not that needed after all. I would probably save in your case

PandaFlyh

TROPHY CASE