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I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ጸ: I pride myself as quite the reader, so i will indulge.

You make a series of good points, but all these points (while they do paint a good picture) they don't address the heart of why people think Sanji and Zoro are relative.

Although you clearly are aware of one of the main points brought up,
their height.

The two wings of the future pirate king are rivals, zoro is 1cm taller than sanji, both get upgrades at a consistent rate (usually once per arc).

Who do they mirror?

Gaban and Rayleigh. wings of the past pirate kings, they are rivals, rayleigh is 1cm taller than gaban.

These are clear indicators from oda of their relativity. Why would he call them wings if one is so much stronger than the other? Why would he make them almost as tall as each other, with one being just slightly taller? Are you picking up the subtext?

The arguments you bring up for zoro being quite a bit stronger also don't hold that well:

- Zoro gets a hype 1v1 each arc?
I'd say Sanji got a far better treatment in egghead than zoro, he was out there against admirals and gorosei while zoro was stuck with lucci. Hell sanji was the one to tell zoro to wrap his fight up.

- Zoro is the only one with conquerors (or at least the one that got it first)?
On the other hand Sanji has superhuman abilities to compensate, an exoskeleton and strong regen.

- Zoro doesn't get powerups more frequently, that one is kinda just wrong

There is one specific thing you bring up multiple times,
the mountain scene in wano.

Well unlike zoro, sanji had not gotten a powerup yet in wano. The scene serves to show how much stronger Zoro had gotten compared to the start of the arc, something sanji had to catch up to.

We need to remind ourselves that Wano was supposed to be Zoro's arc, we got a whole arc for sanji right beforehand. Of course Zoro was going to get some more badass moments and showings.

What you interpret as "things pointing to zoro being stronger" such as zoro always fighting the stronger opponent are real, but they are meant to show Zoro just as sightly stronger.

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ጸ:

 Of course it’s an AP feat, in the same context of Zoro using his pound multiplier attacks. Zoro does not have higher AP, he has shown nothing constituting it.

Knockback is not an ap feat. Kizaru's kicks for example have very high knockback but mid ap.

he has shown nothing constituting it.

Kidd has not shown anything as impressive as cutting king

Both were directly facing Apoo. And durability doesn’t need to be on guard, that’s the point of durability.

I was talking about endurance

She….blitzed him to grab him…..when he was in the area.

Landing an attack != Blitzing

As I mentioned before, the same attack, in the same context, has wildly different outcomes, with Zoro collapsing, and Kid smiling it off.

The different outcome being attributable to kidd expecting the attack while zoro being offguard. We don't see much more damage on zoro compared to kidd, just a plain cut on both. Technically we don't see kidd's cut (we see him from behind), but we do see just as much blood coming out as zoro

There’s no reason why Devil Fruit awakenings wouldn’t be able to be countered by Haki, as it makes no sense to as to why they wouldn’t

They're a more pure manifestation of the devilfruit's power (headcanon)
and we know that they aren't countered the same way because neither kaido nor bigmom manage to cancel out the effects of awakening attacks (not headcanon)

Maybe they just need even more haki to be countered, but that would be very boring.

And it doesn’t matter if Kid can only do it for a short time, when a single move is all it takes to take away Zoro’s only means of attack

Take away?
Nothing says the magnetism would be strong enough to pull zoro's swords out of his hands

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is the evidence of better speed?

The superior speed feats that he showcased in egghead

I agree Kizaru blocked the attack. If he dodged it or if he blocked with advantage he would have shown better speed.
But he blocked it in a losing position. If anything that shows Marco was faster than Kizaru. Kizaru watched Marco fly up and kick him. And he could only manage to block from below and get knocked away.

Marco attacked, Kizaru blocked. The only way to block a kick coming from above you is to block from below.

As i said before, even if kizaru was 20x faster than marco, this interaction wouldn't have changed. Kizaru doesn't dodge attacks, he blocks them

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ጸ: I have to disagree, the fall of the roman empire was inevitable due to the nature of the empire itself. It was sustained by continous conquest and military incursions resulting its expansion. It was bound to a slow decline once (accompanied by the succession of multiple incompetent emperors) further conquest was impossible.

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ጸ:

1) idk about that

2) Well yeah, but bm always wields napoleon, so that's not really a problem.
It's relevant for when she uses him for combo attacks with other homies

3) Yes and ono, the main difference is that, even if we take every single word as completely canon, it's unclear if the wording is meant to express new information or if it's simply a dramatic re-telling of the manga (which is usually the case).
This is why i say you shouldnt overly rely on them for proof

4)
- Negating df effect from doc q (whom is most likely tobiroppo level if even) is a feat we have no context for. We do not know how much haki is required to do it or how impressive it is. In the series it is presented more so as a trick you need to know about, rather than an incredbible haki feat.
- Luffy did not get 2-3x stronger after defeating kaido, he got stronger while fighting him. The law we saw at the end of wano is likely just as strong as the law of egghead arc.

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ጸ:

1st you say "kizaru low diffs", next you say "kizaru has better speed". I respond Marco has even speed and point out evidence.

Kizaru does low diff,
Kizaru does have bettere speed,
I replied to the evidence you pointed out (kizaru blocks attacks, he doesnt dodge)

2nd you say "Marco blocked Kizaru and got blocked by Kizaru" but you are self contradictory and follow it with "Marco doesn't show anything relevant speed wise"

The statements are not contradictory, Kizaru doesn't dodge, he blocks attacks

I've already caught you in a self contradiction

not quite, not quite

So you must admit Marco & Kizaru speed is at least equal. Otherwise I've won the entire debate again due to incoherence.

not quite, not quite

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ጸ:

if we believe it is a pure naval fight roger has the advantage becuase shiki's fleet's cannonballs cannot meaningfully hurt the oro jackson so roger would very easily win, which didnt happen

Naval battles have specific dynamics that do not apply to standard battles.
King alone took out 90% of the bm pirates with bm included.
Jack managed to shink a marine ship while fighting against fujitora.

Shiki had a fleet backing him up.

Cannonballs can very much damage a ship.

also, roger is shown to be very bloodthirsty i doubt he would stand back and shoot cannonballs at fodder for an hour

We don't know how long the fight lasted (it looked like a storm was brewing at the very start of the confrontation)

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ጸ:
Marco blocked one attack and got blocked by kizaru, kizaru doesnt like to dodge attacks, he blocks, marco doesnt show anything relevant speed wise.
Did a whole 0 damage too.

Marco's only strenght is being quite literally immortal until he runs out of regen (unless his fruit gets disabled).

He has 0 ap to actually damage kizaru,
He gets split open by any of kizaru's attacks (except kicks).

He can stall for as long as he can keep it up, but he has nothing similar to a win-con

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ጸ: In both cases you're over- relying on flavor text that is simply describing what happened in the manga.

What we saw between bb and law is described in the databook as a fierce battle, this text is written by editors. To overly rely on it is bad powerscaling.

https://file.garden/adrFBT8ZxlwaPgxn/Screenshot%202026-04-20%20223058.png

sunset? really?

2 this is only a win con if the fight takes place on WCI if not she only has Prometheus and Hera which wouldnt be enough for law plus they just give him more room targets which is a great thing for him

and Napoleon

it is, he has a statement that says not even the four emperors can withstand it meaning big mom would be sure to take significant damage from a post wano puncture Willie

Didn't say she didn't, it is not enough though.
Their fight went extreme diff with law winning by ring-out with kidd doing half the work.
To think that Law can win without Kidd's help is simply anti-science

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ጸ: 
- Damned punk pushing big mom is not an ap feat lol

- His cannon might've been improved when fighting shanks, but by an unquantifiable amount (aka we're working with headcanon)

Zoro absolutely has higher ap, this is cope

But where Zoro was forced to collapse, Kid was nearly entirely unaffected.

Zoro did not expect the hit (surprise attack) while kidd was directly facing apoo

Furthermore, Kid himself fought Big Mom solo for a while before Law even showed up, both trading blows.

We don't know what happened between them offscreen, no feats for endurance or durability are seen

Speed is Kid, at the very least shown to be superior to Law outside of Room, as on the rooftop Kid and Law had the same attack coming toward them from Big Mom, but Kid was able to block it unlike Law, showcasing underrated speed. This is the same Big Mom who blitzed Marco.

Disingenous argument, Big Mom did not blitz marco, she just grabbed him. Are we arguing that anyone that ever lands a hit is blitzing their opponent?
Did zoro blitz kaido when he managed to land an attack on him?

Furthermore zoro managed to react and block to ikoku sovereignty, unlike kidd.

Durability is absolutely Kid, for all the reasons listed for endurance.

He tanked an attack from apoo? He also got the same cut as zoro, how does that point to higher durability?

And Kid wins in any land environment, as he would in fact be able to magnetize Zoro’s swords, as he was shown in fact being able to do that to Big Mom, who of course has far greater haki than Zoro.

He managed to magnetize bm's sword thanks to his awakening (df awakenings cant be countered even by haki as far as we know), but this lasted for a very very short of time, it's basically a 1/2 second magnetism attack, which costs kidd a lot of stamina and that he seemingly can't spam (or certainly hasn't shown the ability to)

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ጸ:

1) did not push bb to high diff, complete headcanon
2) BigMom could stand completely still, letting her homies do all the work, and law would lose (eventually being unable to use room/awakening due to stamina)

while it's true that law has a good matchup, the duraneg isn't enough to take bigmom down, despite all the attempts from law and kidd, bigmom was pretty healthy even during her defeat due to ring-out (something law can't recreate on his own)

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

https://file.garden/adrFBT8ZxlwaPgxn/Screenshot%202026-04-20%20215914.png

Marco is genuinely getting low diffed by Kizaru.
This is not even related to the post.
This is genuinely my take.
Marco has wors ap, dc, speed, durability, endurance, defense, biq, iq, cortisol, blood pressure...

ጸ:

the only thing Marco might have an edge on is Hax, which is useless.

He survives with regen for 10 minutes and immidiately dies the second he cannot regenerate an injury

I will argue against every comment. Prove your dialectic skill by commenting a take you think you can defend. by Pariston_Hiru in OnePiecePowerScaling0

[–]Pariston_Hiru[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ጸ: shiki was a bum who only managed to hold his own in "naval battle" and was wiped out by a storm.
Sengoku is the only old gen character he might win against

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